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While I can't agree more that FireThingy is a great browser - though I actually still prefer the full Mozilla Suite at the moment, the article you refer to is a bit on sided. There are other browsers that are also better than IE.
From a xhtml/css perspective IE is a pain, it still doesn't support PNGs, it still has problems in correctly rendering pages, and it doesn't look like it's going to get fixed any time soon.
It doesn't run on any other platform, like a Linux box, or a mobile phone, the Mac version is dead in the water, and it's security defects could fill many a web site. It may be the best browser Microsoft ever made, but it's still dire.
The problem is that the average user, buys an average Wintel box, and IE is sitting there on the desktop. When a site doesn't work properly, they don't upgrade to firefox or Opera, they just avoid the site, or accept the brokenness as the norm. When the latest security defect rolls round they typically do nothing, and as a result have a throughly rooted box, and assume it's normal for a PC to crash every 5 minutes, and get no performace from their network connection.
Opera have been around for a while and currently make an actual operating profit. Verision 6 has been available for over three years, and it's pretty good, version 7 is better still. Mozilla has been available for a similar length of time in a useable format, yet neither have made much headway.
I do however think that something has started to change though, Opera is suddenly common on top end mobile phones, and there are an awful lot more phones than there are PCs. I know people at work that have switched to Mozilla or firefox on windows, just to control adverts and for the tabs (the other good stuff they don't careabout). Finally the khtml engine in Konqueror and Safari has come on in leaps and bounds, and is another fine contender, especially on the Mac.
I don't know if Mozilla is responsible for all the changes, but something is starting to happen, and small things can lead to big changes...
Re:What about Opera?
sumdeus on 2004-02-11T22:29:57
What about Opera?;-)
You've made quite a few good points. The only reason for my post was to plug the great browser that I use everyday. I had used opera from version 5 onwards (and still have it installed). I just truly enjoy the sleek and very slender nature of the firefox. I don't need the suite of applications that opera provides since I prefer evolution. And the article I posted was supposed to be one sided, what good is propaganda if it isn't one sided?Re:What about Opera?
ajt on 2004-02-12T08:57:53
Fair points.. I do like firebird, it is a great browser.
However I don't think it's as responsible for the shift that may be starting to occur, as the article suggests. Strange as it may seem I do think that something has started to happen though - even if only a tiny ammount. Opera has gained a lot of ground because of it's wide deployment on smart-phones, and Mozilla/khtml have made quite a splash on desktop systems, the ripples are starting, and a tiny fraction of "average" windows users are starting to notice how lousy IE is relative to the competition.
If MS continue to ignore the browser, then there is a window, where the other browsers could gain some momentum, however as long as MS hold billions in the bank and a strangle hold on the desktop, they could at any time, flatten any browser shift.
Microsoft's greatest weakness is if they start to loose their grip on the desktop to Linux, then their absence from this platform, combined with their absence from the Mac, could give the cross-platform browsers a good opportunity.
Never underestimate the power and resolve of the Beast of Redmond
Re:What about Opera?
sumdeus on 2004-02-12T16:41:18
Again, good comments. I do see a slight shift in the the browser arena. I don't believe it is just due to firebird, which isn't even a "stable" release yet really in its 0.8 infancy. I was unaware of Opera's widening deployment on smart-phones. It's interesting to see what the future of phone communication holds with regards to open source software. I have read quite a few articles claiming heavy use of open source software and even the cut down linux operating system being used more frequently.
I have no doubt that Microsoft has some additional tricks up their sleeves [and maybe even money?] to combat these growing trends. Apparently they wish to attempt and exploit the "linux can't interpolate front". We will see how that goes.
Back in the desktop arena however, I still can't see Microsoft loosing the average Joe for some time. I think that truly will scare them, if and when it occurs. Linux, despite the leaps and bounds it has made in the average user market, is still too far removed from the average end user (although Lindows is certainly beginning to make things interesting). I'd really like to see more computers offered with a Linux flavor installed factory. Most people don't even understand what an operating system is, let along that they have choice. But when they purchase a computer, do they really have a choice. Until Lindows came along, not so much. I'd like to see the big boys like Dell, Gateway, HP start offering Linux factory installed.
Unfortunately in this case, there is 1 Windows, and there are 10000000000 linux distributions. Sure there are only 2 or 3 that could be seriously considered as release candidates, but the company selling the system still has to make a commitment to a company it knows is going to be around for a couple years, and isn't going to pull the plug like redhat did.Re:What about Opera?
ajt on 2004-02-12T20:37:12
I think like many things the tectonic shift that is about to happen, will be imperceptibly slow at first, and then quite cataclysmic, and afterwards we'll all laugh at badly designed, over-priced closed software. I think that there will still be close software in the future, but the quality will be better as it's competing with so much free/open software.
Like you say MS has (dirty) tricks up their many sleeves, so I agree that they should not be underestimated. The problem with MS is that they are really lousy at innovating, they couldn't see their hand in front of their face, however they are good at seeing something that is original, good and successful, and embracing it (to death).
I think that Linux is ready for the corporate desktop now, and I think it's fine for many home users too. Most people have no idea what they are doing with Windows, and if you give them all Linux, they will still have no idea what they are doing either. It's not ready for the home user that plays a lot of games, so at the moment that rules out a lot of families. Also I don't think it's suitable for a lot of small business uses where they do their IT in-house, some will cope, others need all the commercial third party apps that are not yet ready on Linux or Mac or Unix.
The shift that is happening is where big companies, and government departments switch en masse to OpenOffice/StarOffice, Mozilla/Firefox and RedHat/SuSE Linux. Once that trend gains momentum, MS will get scared. MS controls the home, because they control the workplace - people like to have the same at both, win the office, and you can win a lot of homes too.
Linux diversity is it's strength, but also weakness. It encourages a great deal of innovation, and a great deal of complexity. However ultimately there will only be a handful of core distributions that everyone uses, though I expect that there will remain many variants of these, and people will install something RedHat, SuSE or Debian based - and that will be it. The many fan distros will continue to innovate, and the best ideas will get folded into the core distros, and the variants of these cores will target different end user groups.
Re:What about Opera?
sumdeus on 2004-02-12T21:44:14
Linux diversity is it's strength, but also weakness. It encourages a great deal of innovation, and a great deal of complexity. However ultimately there will only be a handful of core distributions that everyone uses, though I expect that there will remain many variants of these, and people will install something RedHat, SuSE or Debian based - and that will be it. The many fan distros will continue to innovate, and the best ideas will get folded into the core distros, and the variants of these cores will target different end user groups.
You've put it better than I ever could have, and I completely agree with you. It will be very interesting to observe Microsoft's actions (or lack thereof) in the upcoming months and years. What technologies will they half heartedly invent, or embrace. Time will tell.
