Death of "conservatism"

jdavidb on 2005-05-17T12:17:39

Hot on the heels of my controversial journal entry yesterday comes a link to this article by Patrick Buchanan, who says that the American Conservative movement has dispersed, died, and lost its battles.

Now what Buchanan means by "conservative" is different from what I always meant, but it seems to be exactly what my libertarian and liberal friends seem to mean. Buchanan identifies conservatism primarily with what he calls the "culture war." From that standpoint I cannot participate in "conservatism," because I do not view the power of government as an appropriate tool to use in the so-called "culture war." As far as that "war" is concerned, I believe I'm empowered to use only the tool of persuasive speech and writing which was so harped on in my government-provided public school education. (In Texas at the time I graduated high school, you were required to write a "persuasive essay" in order to pass the state achievement exam and graduate. Teachers agonized over our ability to perform this relatively simple task. I mention this only because some people view persuasive speech in the context I am using it as an immoral activity. If so I'd like to know why the schools insisted on trying to teach it to me.)

I grew up with a different definition of conservatism. I constantly heard my father refer to Barry Goldwater as the "founder of modern conservatism." What little reading I did on Goldwater seemed to have little to do with culture issues and more to do with the size of government. In fact, Goldwater was in favor of allowing homosexuals in the military (interesting second link), at a time when that subject was anathema to "conservatism." I note that in this article, Buchanan identifies Goldwater as more of a libertarian. I suppose that helps explain why today in addition to the lable of "conservative," I find more identification in labels like "libertarian."

BTW, in case anyone wants to flame me merely for posting this link, I hope its obvious that I don't agree with Buchanan here.


The Reason Of Teachers

chaoticset on 2005-05-17T19:01:28

If so I'd like to know why the schools insisted on trying to teach it to me.
The same reason they will try to teach everything else -- their jobs depend on how well your measurements come out.

If teachers were required to have 3/5th of their class pass a height requirement by 12th grade, they'd be feeding children growth hormones. If teachers were required to teach children demonstrably false information on a regular basis, they'd do that too.

They believe their job is important, and it is; but it's not the job they are being paid to do. Their job is to help people function in worthwhile ways in the world; they are only paid to make test scores look good and get everybody to sing the alphabet on cue.

Most of my teachers were valuable negative examples of the kind of person I always wanted to be.

Re:The Reason Of Teachers

jdavidb on 2005-05-17T19:22:10

What I'm saying is that persuasive speech is non-coercive and not "evil," and that it is is some way legitimized by the fact that the state of Texas deems it important enough to include on an exit examination. I'm well aware of why the teachers taught the subject, and anything else on the test. I'm talking at a higher level, and talking about why we as a society (or as the society of the state of Texas) force the teachers to do that.

Re:The Reason Of Teachers

chaoticset on 2005-05-17T19:32:54

Nothing is inherently evil.

Re:The Reason Of Teachers

pudge on 2005-05-17T23:01:10

Is evil inherently evil?

Re:The Reason Of Teachers

chaoticset on 2005-05-17T23:17:35

It's inherently a noun and an adjective.

Re:The Reason Of Teachers

gizmo_mathboy on 2005-05-18T21:41:52

Wow. Lots of similar thoughts. Although I usually say that no word is inherently evil, even evil. This is usual when I start slinging pejoratives around. Calling someone a kike, nigger, honky, white-devil, cracker, hun, etc. is usually only bad/evil in the context it is being used. There is nothing wrong with a word by itself, the context in which it is used matters.

As far as things being inherently evil. Maybe. I have several books on evil I've been meaning to read along with books on Satan. Should be an interesting month or two when I finally dig them out and read them.

just a generalization

gizmo_mathboy on 2005-05-18T21:47:58

I think conservatism has been co-opted by social conservatives/neo-cons. I would consider myself a fiscal conservative, I don't like deficits. However, I am socially liberal. I'm sort of libertarian in general.

I would say Buchanan is definitely a fiscal conservative (and a size-of-government conservative) with some oddball social conservatism thrown in just for fun.

It sort of scares me when I agree with Pat because I disagree with about everything else he says. That's the joy of our country. I don't have to get upset when someone general dislike says something I agree with. On that issue we agree and we can fight it out on the other things.

I think the current pack of folks that control the Republican party and the spineless bastarts in the Democratic party have lowered social discourse to dangerous levels. No one wants to hear an opposing view.

As such language is being distorted. Conservative is an overly broad description, as is liberal and such.

Too bad most people can stand a decently long description. It has to fit in a 5 second sound bite nowadays it seems.

homo soldiers

gizmo_mathboy on 2005-05-18T21:50:18

I think we should let gays in the military. It's security risk otherwise. When people are hiding the fact they are gay it gives the bad guys something they can use for blackmail. I suppose that could be said for most security sensitive positions in the government in general.