I just realized that OS X is truly taking over: Dan, Simon, Randal, Jarkko, and Elaine, have all succumbed ....
--Nat
Re:Funny
hfb on 2002-02-08T14:58:28
:) I still mainly boot into OS9 too as the applications I have haven't reached critical mass on the OSX side yet. Classic mode sucks worse than Wine. Almost all of the OS X people I know are recent converts to the platform with little or no investment in OS9 apps. It's a time consuming PITA to migrate as well. Re:Funny
pudge on 2002-02-08T16:05:46
Yeah, that's really the main thing. It is a lot easier to migrate from *nix to Mac OS X than it is to migrate from Mac OS 9, in many cases.
Although it'd almost be tolerable if it weren't for two things: the very big performance hit (on my G3 boxes, anyway), and those damned paned file dialogs. I hate those things. The Mac OS 8/9 Navigation Services are so much better, I really can't stand it.:) It takes forever to drill down into deep directories, keyboard shortcuts mostly don't work at all, or work inanely.
Re:Funny
Elian on 2002-02-08T16:57:15
Yep, I'm almost entirely OS X native, so it's not a big deal. (Though classic mode seems fine to me--little odd, but fine)
Pity it's so clunky compared to OS 9. Better than Windows or any of the Unix desktops, but that's not exactly a stunning recommendation.Re:Funny
pudge on 2002-02-08T18:56:02
Pity it's so clunky compared to OS 9
I do have confidence it will improve. But I can't use it full-time until it does.
:-)
I'm a TiBook G4 user myself, but I run Yellow Dog Linux. I've thought about switching, but have stopped on 3 issues:
Regards, David
Re:What Mail Clients Do They Use?
pjm on 2002-02-08T18:09:27
1. All sorts of things; mutt of course, or pine if you must. Entourage (part of OfficeX) if you're into that sort of thing: OK, so I am (educational status helps there!). Plenty of others available: Mulberry, particularly if you're a big IMAP fan, has a native OSX client.
2. Sure. Xfree runs really well either rooted or rootless in OS X. Resource implications? very little; XDarwin chugs away at about a couple of percent CPU usage, spiking to around 10% as I gimp around a bit. The OS X window manager gets a little excited at times, but on a modern machine with a fair chunk of memory it's pretty negligible. If you do give this a go have a look at "OroborOSX"; an application that acts as a window manager, yet manages to put a thoroughly OS X-ish slant on X applications.
http:// www.versiontracker.com/macosx
will give you more info about any of the apps mentioned above. Installing X is now as simple as any other mac app (and no configuration hell to deal with). OK, enough, enough: I'm sounding like an evangelist.
3. One fine day...
Cheers,
PaulRe:What Mail Clients Do They Use?
ask on 2002-02-11T12:13:42
I don't really know because I only use my laptop for movies, Terminal.app and a browser, but I saw a patch on the libapreq list recently for fixing Mac OS X stuff.
For mail client, mutt should work fine.
I use emacs without X everywhere anyway, and it works great on X too. (hah, parse that).
My main Macintosh still runs MacOS 9. My new ibook that I got two weeks ago runs Debian.
Eventually I'm sure I will sample X.
About the only gripe I have is that the Terminal application sucks raw eggs as a terminal application. I haven't looked closely at what it thinks it's trying to do but it's not what I got used to-- 15 years ago on true VT100s and lookalikes. As a UNIX interface nothing beats a good text terminal, and the Terminal isn't (hopefully "isn't yet").
Note that I may be barking at the wrong tree: maybe it's the combination of Terminal and the shell that is sucky. But whatever it is, things like suspending your application simply don't work, and the terminal emulation seems flaky. I have a suspicion about this and it is that Terminal wasn't really designed as a terminal, it's a text display widget glued with bubble gum to shell(s), which isn't enough for a dynamic workbench that a proper text terminal is.
Yes, I do know there's rootless X11 and the true xterm (which works for me as a true text terminal), and OroborosX as the window manager. But I'm kind of hoping someone at Apple would fix Terminal since I'd like to have my Unicode and fonts, too.
Re:OS X Good
pjm on 2002-02-11T06:24:44
Yep, the terminal is seriously screwed up. Some little things seem related to the fact that it doesn't run setuid (so that closing a window through the GUI means you get a ghost entry in the output from "who", as Terminal.app lacks permission to write to the log file. )
Another observation: if you have your preferences set to "use this shell: " instead of "use default login for this user" the terminal seems incapable of changing the ownership of the device file! That is, if/dev/ttyp6, for example, is owned by root:wheel and you open it as user jhi with terminal pref's as above, it'll *still* be owned by root:wheel instead of jhi:tty. Do the same thing with "default login" and the ownership changes as it should. I would guess this might be related to the first problem, but it is certainly indicates that your guess re "bubble gum" might not be far off the mark.
[[Symptom: pretty hard to change "mesg" status when you don't own the device!]]
I haven't had any problems with job suspension though: seems to work as expected here.
Cheers,
Paul
