I hate our politicians. You can read an article like this, and many more like it, and it makes you want to run right out and blow up a dirty coal burning power plant.
The problem I have with our politicians, especially the Republicans, is they're always claiming there's not enough proof, or that we're in a natural warming cycle. BULLSHIT. In addition to numerous studies, there are the things we can SEE WITH OUR OWN EYES, as in the article above.
The problem with this "let's wait until there's more proof" mentality is this - by the time there's absolute proof, it will be too late. It means we're already fucked.
HOW ABOUT SOME FUCKING PREVENTATIVE MEASURES YOU ASSHOLES? STOP CATERING TO COAL AND BIG OIL.
Let's also keep in the mind, my non-US friends, that while we're the worst offenders overall, we're not the only offenders. Russia is not far behind and China is working its way up.
Just sign the frickin Kyoto Protocol and deal with it.
yes, but...
jdavidboyd on 2004-12-11T16:33:08
You are, I think, forgetting the biggest component in this problem, "tongue-in-cheeked" in Mel Brook's "Blazing Saddles", "We've got to protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen"
What I mean is that (almost) everyone will do (almost) whatever it takes to be able to live in the lifestyle to which they have been accustomed.
Or, at the least, they justify it as making certain their family is well taken care of.
This is human nature, and, except for a few individuals every now and again, will never change (in my opinion).
I find it annoying to the point of homicide myself, but my feelings aren't going to change the way the world seems to operate...
I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Think globally, act locally", and that is what I try to do, and is, pretty much, (being non-rich and not a politician (oops, redundancy)), all that I can do.
If you find a way to make a difference, (that still fits within the human psyche as we know it),
please let me know!
Coal
ethan on 2004-12-12T09:18:15
HOW ABOUT SOME FUCKING PREVENTATIVE MEASURES YOU ASSHOLES? STOP CATERING TO COAL AND BIG OIL. Ah, but those days when coal power plants did in fact pollute the air have passed a long time ago. I happen to live not far away from
Europe's second biggest coal power plant. It's making those huge clouds that some people make responsible for all the rain we get here. The amazing thing is that the emissions of a modern power plant based on coal are almost 100% water steam. They filter it all out. And this plant is a lignite plant, not even one based on hard coal that would give a higher efficiency and lower emissions per MW/H.
I once made a exkursion to this plant and we stood on the two oven-towers (on the above photo it's these two towers on top of the big black block on the left). I've never been in a place where the air would have been fresher and felt better to breath.
Other than that, I think that denying global warming is quite ludicrous. But at least don't blame coal.
:-)
Re:Coal
jplindstrom on 2004-12-12T13:47:58
They filter all what out?
I thought the problem wrt global warming was that burning coal releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere?
Re:Coal
ethan on 2004-12-12T18:21:23
I thought the problem wrt global warming was that burning coal releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere?
Quite right, and those carbon dioxide (and other harming substances) end up in those said filters. I don't know the exact figures, but German law requires a certain amount of filtering (could have been something about 70% reduction of direct emmissions and in practice they have a much higher rate of reduction). Naturally, filtering the stuff out doesn't mean it has disappeared altogether. They still have to deal with the highly toxic filters separately. But at least it's no longer getting into the air in an uncontrolled fashion.
Re:Coal
TeeJay on 2004-12-13T16:37:15
This is the case for most of europe.
Most of the EU is signed up to Kyoto and the UK has set guidelines, goals and pollutor-pays tax and fines that make filtering compulsory and cheaper.
We also have higher rates of taxation on fuel, the more your car pollutes the more taxes you pay too.
Still a lot less than it should be. Although Cornwall has several windfarms - a couple are visible from where I live. Hopefully wave power will also make power a lot cheaper in the s/w uk as we get a lot of waves and wind.
coupla things
pudge on 2004-12-14T22:52:05
First, no, there IS NOT enough proof that man is causing global warming, or that it is a problem.
But that doesn't mean we can't pretend there is. I am perfectly willing for practical purposes to presume that it is a fact, because the chances are good that it is true, and the consequences are severe.
Second, there is no way Kyoto will ever be ratified. It was already signed, signing is not the problem. Ratification is. Until Congress passes it, it is not law for us, and Congress will not pass it, because it hurts American jobs.
Even if you believe in the false dichotomy of Democrats == working stiffs and Republicans == corporations, Kyoto hurts them all, and not just in the trickle-down way. Yes, corporate profits fall which hurts the workers, but worse than that, because of the imbalance built in to the treaty, the U.S. is put at a competitive disadvantage, in an age where we already have a huge trade deficit and workers are concerned about job outsourcing. This would only make foreign products even cheaper (relative to American products), and make even more jobs outsourced as companies look for other alternatives to American manufacturing (which is on the increase these past several years, but that would change if Kyoto took hold).
Both of these things have the same basic point: we can disagree on whether man-made global warming is true, or whether Kyoto is a good idea, but we can still do practical things. I am unconvinced of man-made global warming, but I can still agree it's a good idea to curb CO2 emissions. I can believe Kyoto is a bad idea for the U.S., but still be in favor of various options that would achieve many of the same goals.
