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Sun hardware - followup

djberg96 on 2003-06-27T18:15:30

I found a specific slashdot post that I think summarizes everything I was trying to say earlier about Sun hardware vs "regular" hardware.

Summation: save your money. Don't buy Sun.

Sun is ok by me, so far

gizmo_mathboy on 2003-06-27T21:53:52

I admin a bunch of E450's and they haven't given me much trouble, of course it's only be a year.

I am getting ready to buy a V880 and a V280R, compute server and file server respectively, and I'm ok with that. Some of the software I need to have installed runs on either Windows or Unix but not linux.

I am in the midst of trying to determine if Linux servers will work ok. If I can get the same amount of computing power out of a Linux server then Sun is hosed.

I'm not particularly for or against Sun. I'm just trying to get the most value for the least money. I do think Sun is doomed in the long run, mostly because of Linux and BSD running the OS, and cheap hardware (Dell is the front runner in that arena) and maybe Opteron.

Re:Sun is ok by me, so far

kjones4 on 2003-06-27T23:28:15

I'm not really anti-sun, but the new low cust 64 bit systems loaded with a bunch of relatively cheap ram would seem to take a severe bite out of the niche that Sun currently occupies.

Re:Sun is ok by me, so far

gizmo_mathboy on 2003-06-28T05:28:27

That is what I am anticipating. Opteron looks promising and possible Itanium. Of course, I have to balance this with whether or not my users will write and use things that take advantage of 64 bit architecture.

yeah...

hfb on 2003-06-28T07:08:29

I always take hardware recommendations 15 year-old /. kiddies. Sun isn't doomed as I think many of the corporations who move to Linux will regret it and move back.

Re:yeah...

djberg96 on 2003-06-28T12:55:56

Are any of his claims false? Have you gone to sun.com lately and done some pricing? I have, and it's not pretty. If Linux is so terrible, why is Sun offering it on some of their low-end servers?

Now, at least Sun seems to have gotten a bit of a clue with the lower end server market with the likes of the V60x (which I *might* consider). However, most of their hardware falls into the "huh?" category. Let's take the 280R server as a case in point:

  • Dual 1.2 GHZ UltraSparc III (8 mb cache)
  • 8 GB RAM
  • Dual 73 GB 10,000 RPM hard drives
  • Solaris
Total Cost: $20,000

Compare that to a Dell PE1750 which I configured as follows:

  • Dual 3 GHZ Xeon (512k cache)
  • 4 GB RAM
  • Dual 73 GB 10,000 RPM hard drives
  • Linux, Windows, or Netware
Total Cost: $7,700

Now, unless you *really need* that 8mb cache, you're getting alot more bang for your buck with the Dell IMO. You've got faster processors (the US III chips are seriously dated at this point) and roughly the same hardware configuration, plus a choice of operating systems. If you really need that extra 4GB of RAM (and you probably won't if you're not running Java apps), you can cluster two of them together. Now you've got a 2 system cluster, with a total of 4 Xeons (vs 2 US III's) and 8GB of RAM.

I realize that Solaris is a better operating system. It has great SMP capabilities, which is probably why they have a solid base on the high-end market. But today's high end workstations are virtually indistinguishable from a low-end server. Consider what a maxed-out G5 will look like? Then consider how things will look 5 years from now.

Now, if *I* were made CEO of Sun tomorrow, I would probably focus a lot more on getting Solaris perfected on the x86, and cut a deal with one of the major chip manufacturers. Ditch the UltraSparc line and cut out those production costs completely. Make Solaris and Java my bread and butter, with reasonably priced hardware running Opterons (or whatever) with Solaris installed.

Of course, I'm saying that without a balance sheet in front of me, or any clue what the profit margin is on SunFire 15k (or how many SunFire 15k's are actually sold each year).

Anyway, that's just my .03.

Re:yeah...

hfb on 2003-06-28T17:18:07

If cost were the only thing driving the market everyone would have switched by now. Solaris is solid as is the hardware. I wouldn't want air traffic control running on a cheapo PC with linux just because it was the cheapest thing going. Sun will be around for quite some time as will Apple.