After playing Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin, I have come to the conclusion that the T34 is the most overrated tank in history.
Re:I don't know about that...
djberg96 on 2003-04-02T03:38:52
Well, I've been playing '42 mostly. The problems have turned out to be:That being said, your points are still valid, and the T34 is cheap to buy. I guess I just need to adjust my tactics.
- Only has a two man crew - can't move, aim and fire at the same time.
- Gun is low velocity and can't penetrate the late model Panzer III "spaced" front armor past 500 meters.
- Long nose, high velocity 50mm cannon of the late model Panzer III can punch through the front armor of the T34 at 1000 meters or less.
- Germans generally have better optics.
:) The website is at battlefront.com if you're interested, btw. I'm pretty sure there's a demo you can download. Strictly an online company. You won't find a more realistic WWII tactical combat simulation IMHO.
Re:I don't know about that...
schwern on 2003-04-05T05:56:21
Two man crew? You mean in the turret, right? Commander/gunner and loader. Driver and hull gunner/radio operator in the hull. Yeah, the fact that the commander has to also aim and fire the gun really hampered the T-34's fighting efficiency. However, it should be able to move and fire at the same time. It won't hit anything at any decent range, no WWII era tank would because of the lack of a good gun stabilizer.
As for the low-velocity L-11 gun the T-34 is originally equiped with, the high-velocity F-34 should start to replace them in late 1941 with the T-34 Model 1941 and that should comfortably penetrate everything the Germans have in '42.
The PzIIIs you're facing are probably the ones up-gunned to the 50mm L60 after the Germans got a chance to inspect captured T-34s and realized what they were up against. You'll be in real trouble when you come against the PzIVH and Panthers in '43.
The Russians are lucky they have any optics at all.:) There are stories from Stalingrad of T34s rolling fresh off the assembly line and straight into battle manned by factory workers. No gun sights. They aimed by getting to point-blank range, opening the breach and looking down the barrel. If you see a tank, you slam a round in and fire.
Yes, I'm sitting here with a big book about the T-34 open on my lap.
I had a look at the game and reviews of it on gamespy and am now lusting. And it runs on a Mac! I tried to get a cheap copy off E-Bay but no dice. Just got some money in, so I might splurge a bit and buy it.Re:I don't know about that...
djberg96 on 2003-04-05T13:49:35
Oh, my tank expert friend told me this. He must have meant in the turret.Two man crew? You mean in the turret, right? Commander/gunner and loader.A testament to the game, I think.I tried to get a cheap copy off E-Bay but no dice.:) I don't mind paying full price for a game like this - online-only independent company and lots of hard work. For this game, I would refuse to burn a copy, too (although I almost never do anyway - I'm more into trading). Re:I don't know about that...
schwern on 2003-04-08T00:49:46
I tried the Beyond Overlord demo. Wow! The sound is amazing! "I just heard an MG42! Shit, there wasn't one around a second ago..." The independent unit logic doesn't seem quite as intellegent as, say, Close Combat. Units seem plenty happen to setup shop just outside a treeline instead of just inside, so there's a bit of micromanagement. However, I did enjoy watching a Sherman vs Panzershrek encounter. You could also feel the Sherman commander kicking the driver in the back of the head and screaming "BACK UP BACK UP BACK UP!" The Sherman backed away with just a damaged gun and then *hid behind a building*. Wow. Also watching two SigIIIs spring an ambush on a pile of Shermans. Seeing a shell arc out and then *clang* richochet off the front armor into the air. Amazing detail. I'll have to try Barbarossa next. I especially want to play with "shoot & scoot".
I'm having some trouble fighting effectively with infantry. Especially digging Germans out of the woods. I think I need to read the whole manual and also relearn the whole fire & movement / supressing fire that Close Combat taught me. And I can't figure out how to get my mortars to do indirect fire.
Camera controls could be slightly better, but I have high expectations coming from Myth.
$65 for both. Hmmm. I just got paid, too. I guess the real question is MacOS or Windows. I have this shiney new iBook to play it on, but I have to reboot into OS 9 to play it.:( Re:I don't know about that...
djberg96 on 2003-04-08T03:36:31
Yeah, the sound is pretty awesome, isn't it? You'll become all too familiar with the *plunk* noise that can mean only one thing - armor penetration. They've fixed the AI in CMBB a bit. Infantry are more likely to run for cover when being shot at and they add C&C for tank units.Digging infantry out of the woods is tough. Generally, it takes artillery or a few close range tanks. The self-propelled guns (especially the Priest) are good for that, too.
CMBO has a few minor issues, the biggest one being that most of the British tanks are under-costed for make-your-own scenarios. Also, I recommend never allowing the Churchill VIII - it's all but invincible. In addition, tanks tend not to prioritize targets very well in CMBO - they're easily distracted by infantry. This seems to be much better in CMBB.
I haven't checked, so I'm not sure if a Mac player can play against a Windows player. Might be something to consider when deciding on platform.
Re:I don't know about that...
schwern on 2003-04-11T01:50:04
I tried the training scenario for CMBB and learned some things:
- Tanks can't spot for shit.
- Infantry advancing across open terrain should RUN!
- Suppressing fire
- Suppressing fire
- Suppressing fire
I am *really* enjoying the sound. That little 37mm AT gun the germans have in the woods got its first shot off on my T34s right at the end of a turn. I replayed it many times just trying to figure out where it came from and listening to that *clang*.
I have a few complaints, which I'll ship off to Battlefront once I've seen the full version.
- Contour lines sure would help to get a better feel for the terrain. Especially when setting up AT guns which don't move much.
- Having LOS available during setup would also help. Again, ATs.
- They didn't properly model the clumsy gunner/commander hatches on the T34. While this doesn't effect gameplay it all, it sure would have looked cool
Hopefully multiplayer works cross-platform. I'm looking for some newsgroup commentary about it.
And the Churchhill VIII *was* damned near invincible. 150mm of armor tends to do that. It has more than the Tiger! What I can't understand is why its so cheap. Cheaper than the VI or VII.
Re:I don't know about that...
djberg96 on 2003-04-11T15:14:15
Contour lines sound cool. I don't think it's an option currently. I usually just go to view 1 and scroll horizontally across the screen to get a feel for the map.You should have LOS available on placement. Perhaps that's a demo issue. As for the T34 modelling, I wouldn't know, but they may very well change it if they can.
:)
