Today Britain comes close to knowing how the French felt last week. The extreme right wing British National Party have won three council seats in Burnley.
It's slightly heartening to know that the electoral turnout was far higher than average in the few areas where the BNP stood a chance, but all in all it's a really shameful day for Britain.
I've been having a tough time completely understanding what's been going on in French politics, and now this. People say all kinds of things about American politics, but at least over here overtly racist policies usually don't succeed at high levels of government.
So, when people say Le Pen or the BNP are racist, which of these do they mean?
The reason I ask is because I'm not well read enough to fully understand what's going on on your side of the Atlantic, and I value the direct opinions from you people over there more than what the media says, anyway.
I know that the longer any dispute goes on, the more potential there is someone will be called a Nazi, but to help me understand, please don't exaggerate if that's not the case. I've got a friend in Romania who kept me up to date with their elections last year, and he was unfortunate enough to be a member of the Hungarian minority that one of the primary candidates hated. Living in the U.S., and being a white male, I can't even imagine what that kind of situation must feel like.
Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
davorg on 2002-05-03T14:42:49
Can't tell you about Le Pen, but as for the BNP - this list comes from their policies page.
- IMMIGRATION - time to say NO!
- EUROPE - back to British independence!
- LAW AND ORDER - crack down on crime!
- ECONOMY - British workers first!
- EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!
- AGRICULTURE - quality before quantity!
- HEALTH - first-class healthcare for all!
- TRANSPORT - time to invest!
- ENVIRONMENT - NO to pollution!
- FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!
- PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers!
- NORTHERN IRELAND - NO to sectarianism!
- DEFENCE - no more cuts!
- FOREIGN AFFAIRS - Britain's interests first!
- DEMOCRACY - letting the people decide!
There's more detail on each of those on their site but as far as racial minorities go they want to stop all immigration, repatriate all illegal immigrants and criminals, and offer financial incentives for voluntary repatriation.
There's also their connection with Combat 18 a group of thugs who delight in racially-motivated violence. They get their name from the fact that the 1st and 8th letters of the alphabet are A and H (for Adolf Hitler).
Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
jdavidb on 2002-05-03T15:13:38
Yeah, now that I've looked through their FAQ, I've seen plenty. Opposition to interracial marriage because "a race is a beautiful thing and should stay pure"? Bleah! Turns my stomach! Literally!
1st and 8th letters of the alphabet
I thought freaks like that were only in the U.S. Sometimes I weep for my world.
The repatriation concept is strange. We had a similar movement about slaves in the 1800s; I believe that's part of what founded Nigeria and Monroevia. (You may have already known that; I don't know. Monroevia was named for U.S. President James Monroe.) I thought it was really weird they were offering to pay for it.
The U.S. was built on immigration, so I can't even identify with their desire for what they call a "pure British homeland." All my life I have felt a desire to better our country through granting citizenship to immigrants. That seems to be one of the most noble and wonderful things in the world to me. I've got a friend from El Salvador who became a citizen a few years ago, and it meant so much to both of us. Although I don't favor completely tearing down the borders, it's wonderful to me that so many people want to come here and be a real part of our country. I can't fathom wanting to deny that to someone. It's part of what makes us great, and I hope your BNP can realize that that can make you great as well.
We've got a lot of people here with various degrees of opposition to the U.N. (You knew that.) I'm not so keen on it, myself, but I don't want to pull out of it or anything. I can see where the EU could really bother some people; it's such a drastic change and even further than the U.N. or anything that has come before. However, after exhibiting that much xenophobia, it's hard to find any respect for the BNP when they speak against it.
After our Sklyarov incident, I became very big on national sovreignty. I don't believe in applying our laws in other countries or vice versa. But the EU to me seems a lot like the 1800s when states joined the U.S. It was generally a consensual, mutually beneficial agreement. Take note of our history, though, meaning the civil war. It's permanent. (Not a problem with me, but it seems to be with some people.)
One last thing. I hate having racism identified as "right wing." I'm "right wing." Using the American divisions of left and right, your BNP is a strange animal indeed.
:) Anti-immigration and pro-national sovreignty, but pro-union and pro-national healthcare? I can't even figure out where to put that combination; I've never seen it. Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
mir on 2002-05-07T13:23:43
Your list is not adequate for the French situation: minorities is not a concept that exists in French law (with the exception of women, who are a majority anyway: half of the candidates from any party must be women): everybody is either a French citizen or not.
So officially le pen and his cronies propose to send back illegal immigrants to their countries, prevent foreign workers to bring their families, only give wellfare and "allocations familiale" (money you get from the state when you have kids) to French citizens (foreign workers will of course still pay for it!), and reserve jobs to French citizens (which illegal under European law).
That's the official party line. What is not official but which is well understood by most people who vote for them is that racial profiling would be even worse than it is now (remember, there are no minorities in France, so you can't track racial profiling), and that the bureaucracy (cops, state officials) would be strongly anti-arabs (the legal culture of France is quite different from the one in the US, if the bureaucracy decides to ignore a law or to apply it in a totally illegal way it is very hard, impossible actually, to sue them).
And of course the immense majority of people in the neo-nazi party is anti-semitic and anti-arabs, their security corp is organized as a private militia... nice people overall.
One thing to remember BTW is that according to the French law a lot of kids who were born in France from foreign parents (often from Algeria or Marocco) only become definitely French when they reach 18. Not to mention lots of kids who were brought to this country when they were really young, who have grown here, but who don't necessarily have French citizenship. So we are talking discrimination against a lot of people who have always lived in France and are French for all intents and purposes, except for their citizenship and (most importantly) the color of their skin (my American wife of course would have no problem).
Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
jdavidb on 2002-05-07T13:54:33
Thanks for the info. As I said, we Americans are just about completely information-less. Our media said "LePen" and "protests" and that's about it. Nearly every sentence you wrote was a revelation to me.
Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
Power on 2002-12-22T22:41:27
I'll try to answer your questions about the BNP.
Opposed to preferential treatment programs or quotas for minorities, such as America's affirmative action, in private business. Yes the BNP opposes them but so do the mainstream parties maybe excluding the Lib Dem's. Affirmative action discriminates agaisnt whites.
Same as above, only about government jobs. Exactly the same as above.
Opposed to civil rights laws protecting minorities from discrimination. Yes they are opposed.
Pat Buchanan: immigrants, go home! They support voluntary repatration for non whites and a stop to all further non white immigration.
Get us out of the European Union Yes they want to leave the EU. Which is a good idea if the EU isn't seriously reformed.
Favoring equal rights for minorities before the law, but actively encouraging nonviolent racism from private citizens. A bit hard to answer. They encourage support for British culture and tradition and support for the white race.
Actively encouraging violent racism from private citizens. The BNP do not encourage racist attacks at all and oppose racist attacks on members of all races.
Subjugation and servitude for minorities No. Non whites would be able to stay if they wanted in the UK. The only restriction would probly be that they woudn't be allowed to take part in a relationship with a white person.
Genocide. The BNP don't promote genocide in any way. They are a democratic party which have significant differences from Hitler's Nazi party. Don't listen to the ANL and Searchlight's lies.Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
ask on 2002-12-24T01:01:04
Non whites would be able to stay if they wanted in the UK. The only restriction would probly be that they woudn't be allowed to take part in a relationship with a white person.
That is just so sick.
- askRe:Can you put this in perspective for an American
darobin on 2002-12-30T14:53:54
Am I right in thinking that you're not a member of the Perl community but just some guy working for the BNP and posting everywhere Google gives you a forum to give the impression that the BNP's ideas are pervasive when, thankfully, they're only shared by a moronic minority. If that is the case, go away and take your propaganda with you.
Re:Can you put this in perspective for an American
Power on 2003-02-05T21:11:28
"Non whites would be able to stay if they wanted in the UK. The only restriction would probly be that they woudn't be allowed to take part in a relationship with a white person."
"That is just so sick."
- ask
That is your view which is strongly disagree with but you still have the right to say whatever you like as do i. I personally find interacial marriages sick and so do a lot of people i know, but that's just my opinion.
What exactly is the perl community? I signed up to your website when i was looking for opinions on the BNP.Are you lot a bunch of liberal anti racists? I have conservative views on social issues such as abortion or homosexualty. I always have done. I don't work for the BNP and don't brodcast for them on every forum i go on. I never even said i supported the BNP, i just tried to answer those questions. What is wrong with that? The guy wanted some information.
I used to support the Conservatives but i've become very disullonised with them and have since became intrested in the BNP and white nationlism. I may vote for them when i'm 18, i haven't decided yet. I also woudn't call people who vote BNP or are members of the BNP moronic as many intelligent professionls now support the BNP and the leader of the BNP went to Cambridge and is very articulate and intelligent. You liberals underestimate the BNP and other pro white parties.
In France, the Front National is nearly the second-largest political party. It would be difficult to overstate the difference between the two.
Re:talking down the BNP
davorg on 2002-05-06T11:15:14
Oh, I agree that there's certainly a huge difference in magnitude between what's going on in France and Burnley (where, I think, the BNP won 3 council seats).
On the other hand, they also made a good showing in Oldham and their popularity is grwoing in parts of Southwark and and Tower Hamlets. I just think that we need to be aware of whats going on and if we can do something to stop their influence growing then hopefully we can stop them ever getting close to the popularity of the Front National in France.
Re:talking down the BNP
billycotton on 2004-01-07T14:32:24
May I say that the fact you are talking about us is a clear indication that we in the B.N.P.are becoming an increasing relevance to british politics. I will accept that at this present time we are small, but rest assured this will change in the next 10 years, and one of the reasons is because we tell it how it is,we are not constrained by political correctness or interest groups. If my home city of sheffield is anything to go by it could be even les than 10 yrs,The membership in my city is shooting up so this gives us great hope for the future.
