Are there any decent ones? I mean really decent ones, like TextPad or Kate. None of that emacs, or vi, or bbedit sillyness. Thanks for any pointers!
Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-19T14:43:18
I don't know where to start, it's all wrong! No tabs! No good at configurable indenting! Many many other things! And the HTML heritage bears heavily...
Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T07:17:31
BBEdit has been around a lot longer than it has been used for HTML, and I don't think you could point at much of significance that you would use for coding that comes directly from its HTML features.
BBEdit is not perfect, but it is the best editor out there, bar none.:) Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T09:56:09
When I tried it half the menus were covered with HTML-related stuff. Perhaps that's changed, and perhaps they can be removed. It doesn't give a first good impression. On second impression, I found a shortage of shortcuts to navigate around text. Again, probably configurable but points to a more mouse-oriented approach which I dislike (a general reproach for most things Mac it would seem -- I tend to expect at the very least Ctrl-arrow, Ctrl-Shift-arrow, Ctrl-Backspace-arrow, Ctrl-Del-Arrow where "arrow" can also be end/begin/page-up/page-down).
And no tabs!
Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T14:35:53
When I tried it half the menus were covered with HTML-related stuff.
You may have been using Bizarro BBEdit... only one of the menus is related to HTML, the one called "Markup". And you can even turn it off, last I checked. And it was never more than that. There are a few other places in the menus where you may see HTML stuff (like under Window -> Palettes), but that is about it for menus.
A good 1/4 - 1/3 of the Preferences are related to HTML, but those can be ignored if you don't use it for HTML.
I found a shortage of shortcuts to navigate around text.
There are many. What functions did you want to perform?
And no tabs!
I use tabs all the time. You can configure your tab stop default, and per-file.Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T14:52:05
The strict minimum I need for text navigation is:
jump word
end/start-line
select word
select to end/start-line
select line
jump to matching bracket
select brackets inner
select brackets outer
jump paragraph
select paragraph
select inter-paragraph
end/start-file
select to end/start-file
select-page-up/down
delete-word
backspace-word
delete to start/end of lineI've probably forgot a few, but without that I'm a poor lost coder
:) Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T15:07:42
Some of those are handled using standard Mac OS key commands. For example, opt-arrow jumps words, and opt-shift-arrow selects words as you jump (shift selects, remember that you can usually add shift to a function to select whatever you are doing).
Some of them may not be supported by Mac OS standards or by BBEdit's basic functionality, but BBEdit also has an emacs mode, where it supports all emacs key commands... of course, we know how you feel about emacs. :-) Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T15:15:00
Yes, I didn't say there were none of them! Default win/lin OS settings don't have enough to my taste either (I tend to want to use those anywhere I can type text in). Thankfully Textpad and Kate solve that nicely.
I saw that Qt/Mac was just release (yay!). I'll see if I can get Kate running after work
:) Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T15:22:25
Yes, I didn't say there were none of them!
I am saying that with emacs mode turned on, I am fairly certain ALL of them are supported.Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T15:26:39
Yes, but then I never managed to remeber how many chickens to sacrifice... I have a terrible memory like that.
Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T16:37:35
But that is a lot of functions you mentioned... I don't know how you could memorize all of them in any case if you have a problem memorizing them for emacs. Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T16:58:36
They're all consistent, using always the same modifiers combination (and only Ctrl and Shift), with "obvious" special keys arrows, end, home, pg-up, pg-down, and backspace, del.
Re:BBEdit
pudge on 2003-06-24T14:37:55
Oh, you mean tabs so you can have multiple documents in one window. Well, most programs don't have that. I am not a big fan of tabs, but YMMV.
Besides, with Exposé in Mac OS X 10.3, you won't need tabs.:-) Re:BBEdit
darobin on 2003-06-24T14:46:10
Yeah, those tabs
:) I can't live without tabs. No tabs means not an option. I've looked at Exposé, it does look like it'll help for a lot of the misery I feel switching between windows on OS X, but it ain't like tabs. I don't want to see lots of miniatures of the stuff I'm editing (especially as I often have several dozen files open simultaneously), I want to see little tabs with a title so that I can tab through them!
Re:Just rumor?
darobin on 2003-06-19T15:07:32
I'm downloading Eclipse right now, but I'm told it's useless below 512mo
:-/ I hadn't thought of CodeWarrior, thanks, looking now.
Re:Simple option
darobin on 2003-06-19T17:06:35
Thanks, I'll try that despite the scary eXtreme Programming stickers over there
;)
Re:Kate for MacOS X
darobin on 2003-06-19T17:07:29
Yes, but that requires X+KDE+Qt+Kate, eventually I may do that but I need to get started and not to spend three days installing software
;) Thanks! Re:Kate for MacOS X
ziggy on 2003-06-20T16:29:40
Trolltech is releasing a Cocoa-native version of Qt under the GPL.I don't know if that means you will be able to compile KDE+Qt+Kate without any intervening X bits, but it's certainly a start.
Re:Why not Emacs?
darobin on 2003-06-20T08:47:35
Well I'm usually pretty fast at learning stuff. I tried to get to work with emacs three times (including last week). After two hours I can vaguely remember how to get around and do a few basic things. The next day it's gone no matter what.
It simply won't get in. Whoever's idea that is of a usable interface doesn't come from my planet
:) Re:Why not Emacs?
merlyn on 2003-06-20T14:16:23
Hmm. Sounds like people when they are beginning Perl. {grin}Yes, Emacs takes a bit to get familar. But once you're there... it's an amazing tool.
Re:Why not Emacs?
darobin on 2003-06-20T14:27:22
Well I picked up Perl a *lot* faster
;) I don't doubt that it may be an amazing tool, I just don't happen to have three spare weeks with nothing else to do :-/ A text editor should be easy to pick up. I don't care if I have to struggle to fine tune it later, but the basics should be so that at least I can start using it before I know more. And that's how it differs from Perl: "baby emacs" is already way too hard.
Re:Why not Emacs?
ask on 2003-06-21T08:04:42
"baby vi" is pretty easy.
- ask (emacs user)Re:Why not Emacs?
darobin on 2003-06-23T08:19:41
Yes, I can use vi(m), but I have other reasons for disliking it
;) I guess I'll just wait for Trolltech to release Qt/Mac (any minute now) and see if that's enough to get Kate working...
