I don't understand how people consider it "fun", "relaxing" or even "entertaining" to get dressed up in their nicest tuxes and gowns on vacation
Formal nights are a big cash parade. I mean, I got funny looks for silver hair and dress socks under sandles with my suit. Geesh.
and if you ask me which empire....:)
Re:It's a throwback to the Empire
cwest on 2002-01-14T14:21:58
The Woodrow Wilson Empire? (President responsible for creating the economic boom of the 20's, with war, no less)
In any case, which ever it is, it was a titanic empire.Re:It's a throwback to the Empire
hfb on 2002-01-14T14:42:57
No, Casey, a REAL Empire, The British one.
:) It's not really a formal dinner until there is at least one utensil in front of you that you haven't the faintest idea of which course it's for. Formal dinners are fun and, besides, guys have it easy with a suit you can wear for every occasion as women require a different dress for each night. Would IRC-ing from the dinner table help?
Re:If you ask me which one...
jmm on 2002-01-14T17:04:18
I've noticed throwback reminders of "the Empire" in a number of ways that are typified in that comment "...and if you ask me which one...".
If you ever hear of any institution that refers to itself as "The Institution" without naming a nationality, chances are extremely high that it is British. The Royal Mail, coins with a picture of Elizabeth II but no nation named, lots of others I can't recall right now.
Perhaps this is a throwback mindset, in which some people are not yet willing to acknowledge that the sun has been setting on the British Empire every day for a long time now.Re:If you ask me which one...
hfb on 2002-01-14T18:03:41
And just maybe people enjoy a little bit of tradition and fun on a cruise. Dressing for dinner isn't that traumatic.
Re:If you ask me which one...
jmm on 2002-01-14T18:40:28
I'd enjoy it (wish I were there:-). I'm not all that thrilled to dress up, but (unlike Pudge) I don't find it intolerable.
My previous post could be marked off-topic, as it was not referring to the original cruise at all. (Hmm, I wonder if I can use one of my moderator points to downgrade my own post. If this were slashdot, I might try it, but I haven't seen much moderation being done here.)Re:If you ask me which one...
pudge on 2002-01-14T18:48:56
I don't find it intolerable... for short periods of time. The last time I wore a suit, for a wedding a year and a half ago, I had it on for many hours, which bordered on intolerable. :-) Re:If you ask me which one...
hfb on 2002-01-14T19:03:52
I'd love an excuse to dress up for a change since if I wore a dress to work it would blow my cover as a man....:)
A couple of wise people convinced of this POV. First, there was the friend who gets all excited when he gets a chance to wear his tuxedo. The tux is an indication that this is a [certain type of] special occasion. (The other way to look at it is that formalwear is a lifetime investment. A few hundred dollars is pretty steep for a set of menswear, so you might as well wear it as often as possible).
Then there were the friends who convinced me that every man of a certain age (over 25) needs at least one tuxedo in his wardrobe, preferrably a tuxedo and a dinner jacket. Renting the occasional tuxedo doesn't really quite do the trick. Once you own the formalwear, you feel more comfortable (er, less "stiff") wearing it, and enjoy the occasions more.
Third, there's the "fun" factor. Consider the formal night on a cruise. Remember that you're on vacation, and the goal is to have fun. If you like basic black, this is a time to get it out and enjoy it. If you have some objections to it (moral, socio-political or otherwise), this is a time to spike your hair in purple and wear a powder blue tux, polka dot bow-tie, sandals and argyle socks and really go over the top (enjoying each and every reaction you get along the way). You could make a shallow protest and avoid formal night, but where's the fun in that?
Re:Perception
pudge on 2002-01-14T16:16:39
I disagree on most of this, except for the part of "if you think it will be fun, it will be fun."
I don't see tuxedos as an indication of a special occasion, I see them as an indication of people trying to convince themselves an occasion is special. Case in point: formal night on a cruise.
If I owned formalwear, I would feel more comfortable in it, but only because I would know it is mine. I would still hate to wear it, and it would not feel any less stiff.
I don't like cruises, and I don't see what is enjoyable about dressing up, in any respect, whether it is wearing a tuxedo or "spiking my hair." What is fun for me is wearing clothes that I actually like qand find to be comfortable: jeans and flannel or t- shirts. I don't care to protest against formal clothes, I care to protest about being uncomfortable, and wearing silly clothes won't make me any *more* comfortable.
I've not worn slacks, a suit, a jacket, or a tie in a long time. Maybe twice in the last three years. It's annoying and uncomfortable and useless. Well, not useless, exactly; it makes it so people have nothing to complain about. That is the only reason I ever wear suits/ties/etc.: so that people can't complain about what I am wearing, so I don't stick out and distract others, unduly making myself the center of attention. And that is not "fun."
I will not own a tuxedo, because I have no plans to wear one until my children get married, and by then I expect to be a, um, different size.Re:Perception
pudge on 2002-01-14T16:17:37
Oh, I meant to add that yes, if I think it is fun, it will be fun; but I am not capable of that level of self-deception.Re:Perception
ziggy on 2002-01-14T16:39:57
It's a big world, and TMTOWTDI.I disagree on most of this, except for the part of "if you think it will be fun, it will be fun."
[...]
I don't see what is enjoyable about dressing up, in any respect, whether it is wearing a tuxedo or "spiking my hair.":-) Some of us feel comfortable in suits, and some of us don't. Ditto any other kind of outfit you can imagine (including t-shirts and jeans, shorts, bathing suits, whatever). My point remains that there's more than one way to look at "wearing the penguin suit", and that if you dislike the lock-step conformity of black tie events, there are ways around that while still staying within zone of "black tie". Especially on a cruise's formal night.
Of course, if you don't like formalwear in any manner, that's a different story entirely.
:-) Re:Perception
ziggy on 2002-01-14T16:39:57
It's a big world, and TMTOWTDI.I disagree on most of this, except for the part of "if you think it will be fun, it will be fun."
[...]
I don't see what is enjoyable about dressing up, in any respect, whether it is wearing a tuxedo or "spiking my hair.":-) Some of us feel comfortable in suits, and some of us don't. Ditto any other kind of outfit you can imagine (including t-shirts and jeans, shorts, bathing suits, whatever). My point remains that there's more than one way to look at "wearing the penguin suit", and that if you dislike the lock-step conformity of black tie events, there are ways around that while still staying within zone of "black tie". Especially on a cruise's formal night.
Of course, if you don't like formalwear in any manner, that's a different story entirely.
:-) Re:Perception
pudge on 2002-01-14T16:42:39
Yeah, I can't be comfortable while having to wear formalwear, period. Oh well.:) Re:Perception
hfb on 2002-01-14T18:08:04
Then you probably haven't had a properly sized and fitted tuxedo to wear. There is no crime to dressing well a few times a year instead of looking the geeky slob that most of us do 99% of the time.
Re:Perception
pudge on 2002-01-14T18:26:47
Then you probably haven't had a properly sized and fitted tuxedo to wear.
That is not it at all. I hate to wear clothes other than the ones I like. I don't like those. Even if they were comfortable, I dislike them, and I would therefore be uncomfortable.
There is no crime to dressing well a few times a year instead of looking the geeky slob that most of us do 99% of the time.
That's precisely the problem: I flatly deny that wearing a tuxedo constitutes "dressing well." I agree it consitutes "dressing as other people think is dressing well," but I think suits and tuxedos look dumb, and that all ties look entirely ridiculous. I don't think anything about suits or tuxedos has anything to do with dressing "well."
I wouldn't directly criticize anyone for wearing such clothes, because everyone can dress as they wish, but I maintain that, to me, they look dumb.
