Him: So, have you tried the latest version of Eclipse?
Me: No... I don't use Eclipse...
Him: Then what IDE do you use?
Me: The very best! :-) Vim! :-)
Him: Ah, but Eclipse has a lot of neat things that Vim doesn't!
Me: Such as...?
Him: Variable name completion!
Me: ^P
Him: Folding!
Me: zf
Him: *grunf*
Me: So... what else has Eclipse stolen from Vim? >:-)
Re:The very best
cog on 2004-07-15T12:15:15
I heard you could use vim inside emacs, so that makes it a good editor:-P
Oh no, another holy war!!!:-)
I know there is vim for windows, as emacs (or xemacs). Meanwhile, I also know that some people have problems working with them (can't understand, but it is true). For those, IDE like eclipse can be good (don't know, never used), but some other options, like Komodo are nice. I know Komodo is not free (is eclipse free?), but it includes very nice features. I used it, I think it is nice, but I still prefer my emacs.
I also know of some other windows editors people use, like winedt and such, but I do not know those so well I can comment.
Re:Other options
cog on 2004-07-15T13:08:33
I agree with you:-) I just disagree with people saying I should use Eclipse because it has code completion and such... Wanna know what I think about code completion? O:-) The same thing as Mr_Perl :-) I honestly can't see what I could do with things such as Eclipse that I can't do with Vim... maybe I'm missing something, but I'm happy the way I am
:-) And don't bother saying (this is not directed to ambs, but to everybody else) if I was coding Java I would need something else rather then Vim, because I work with a guy that literally codes meters and meters of Java code with Vim, and believe me... it's hard to find a bug in his code
:-)
Re:IDE schmIDE
ambs on 2004-07-15T13:15:05
Hmmms... glade and emacs?
But, there are other features. Look at EPIC for example. You don't just get an editor, you also get a debugger and a regular expression plugin (where you can test regular expressions on the fly).
There are other things, too, like the outline view where I can see functions listed by name, and jump to them as needed (useful for large files). There are a ton of plugins (though quality can vary greatly between them), including a vi plugin. You're also free to use an external editor with Eclipse if you like, rather than using the built-in one, so you can continue to use vim alongside Eclipse.
I say give it a try. It's not for everyone, but I think most people like it, or at least find one of the plugins useful.
Re:IDE vs Editor
ambs on 2004-07-15T14:44:02
There are IDE, Editors and RealEditors. Real Editors are vi or emacs. These real editors can be programmed. If you can program it, you can add any type of plugin (debugger, expression evaluator, etc) to it.Re:IDE vs Editor
perrin on 2004-07-15T16:50:36
CVS/Subversion integration, debugger integration, and jumping to functions are all there in vi, Emacs, Kate, etc. They also have the ability to edit files over FTP or scp (Kate supports scp, Emacs just FTP I think), really excellent auto-indentation (just hit tab a few times and you get perltidy-ish formatting), and other features that most IDEs have not yet copied. Eclipse really doesn't have much to offer at the moment to someone who knows how to use one of the more mature editors.Re:IDE vs Editor
prakash on 2004-07-15T17:24:43
Emacsen provide remote file access using ssh/scp too (in addition to ftp and other protocols) via TRAMP.As for indenting, just one TAB does the trick in the cperl-mode that ships with Emacsen.
/prakash (who uses vi occassionally) Re:IDE vs Editor
perrin on 2004-07-15T17:29:56
Thanks for the TRAMP link! The multiple tabs I was referring to are for multiple lines, although I'm sure there's a way to perform the operation on a block without needing to keep hitting tab.Re:IDE vs Editor
jest on 2004-07-15T20:39:25
The cperl-indent-region command, executed by C-M-\ is what you want.
I was aware that Vim had folding, but I've never looked into it until now. It looks like there's 'manual' folding or 'marker' folding. Which do you use?
In the IDE for the GUI (not perl) we use at work, there are diamond-shaped dots preceeding each line to double-click on to fold or unfold an indentation level. It's alright except that some programmers hide 100's of lines in innocent-looking if-else-blocks or loops, and it's annoying when you unfold those blocks to look for something (or while debugging).
As for GUI IDE's, it's nice to be able to do things like align a group of widgets horizontally or vertically, or make them the same size with a couple of clicks (this would of course be different if you had Sizers like in wx or pack like Tk). Though I can drag widgets around on the screen, I find I can't get to the actual x,y coordinates or some other attributes unless I open up the file in a text editor, which I don't want to do very often, but it's another annoyance when I do want to do that.
Re:folding
cog on 2004-07-16T10:02:08
It looks like there's 'manual' folding or 'marker' folding. Which do you use?If you're asking me, know that I usually don't use any kind of folding. I just happen to know about it
:-) However, I do believe there are some more folding methods... let's see...
vim -cshows 'manual', 'indent', 'expr', 'syntax', 'diff' and 'marker' folding... I wonder what these are...:help folding :-| guess I'll have to check :-) Somebody else out there using vim's folding capabilities?
