Perl 6 documentation gives a number of difficulties with translation of new terms.
There is a new thing "capture" as a reference replacement.
No one knows how to translate that to Russian. A word for "reference" would cause confusions for those who know Perl 5. A word which is used in a context of saving media data (screen capture, for example) is not acceptable at all (as it is translating back to English close to "conquest").
"Capture" could be translated as "binding" in sence that they produce an object which links other objects inside it. But there are := and ::= operators, which are binding ones already.
A discussion in Moscow.pm's mailing list now came to intermediate solution to name "Captures" as "bindings" in Russian and original "Binging" as "Creating aliases".
Insightful post; too bad it culminated in a coarse passive-aggressive attack on... something. But hey, it's your blog.
Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
andy.sh on 2009-08-26T12:34:54
Remember the story of pre-UTF time
:-) Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
masak on 2009-09-11T11:02:43
Oh, I remember. And I don't consider us out of those pre-UTF woods yet, either.
Since your reply doesn't seem to acknowledge what I found disconcerting about your ending, let me try and explain it in a bit more detail: your post is unique in that it showed a side of the Perl world that I don't often think about: those places in the world where English is not a given, where translations would help greatly but are in short supply; where finding suitable translation terms is an actual problem, with challenging and sometimes agonizing trade-offs. Being from Scandinavia myself, I don't often experience this problem. We make do in a sort of sub-optimal simulation of English that often far enough. So it's elucidating to read about the woes of a translator in a country where such direct assimilation of the English language is less of an option.
Then comes the final paragraph: "Foo baz bar, fuck you, English-oriented world." Which not only deviates from the sober message of the post so far, but actually turns me off the whole sympathetic feeling that had built up so far in me. I thought I was reading the story of unsung heroes who accepted the world as it looks today and, by translating things to their own language, attempted to do the best of the situation. Instead, it seems that I'm reading a text by someone who wants to fuck the English-oriented world.
Which is much less interesting, if you ask me.
Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
andy.sh on 2009-09-11T12:25:17
Carl, you think of my innocent phrase too serios. No real fucking I meant
:-) Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
masak on 2009-09-11T13:09:10
I realize that. Still good to hear you say it, though - now I don't need to spend an inordinate amount of time imagining you as a covert terrorist who hates the Western way of life, and especially all of its untranslatable nouns.
Perhaps the barefoot ideals over at #perl6 has made me a little extra sensitive to direct insults, even frivolous, non-directed ones like yours. Don't know if that's good or bad.
Oh, also, I don't really mind swearing much. I'll go so far as to say that there are times where it's even appropriate. Probably not this one, though.
Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
andy.sh on 2009-09-11T13:15:47
But you described well a real situation in which we all live. There are countries which do not need local language for teaching and where it is difficult to find literature on programming in languages other that English. And there exist countries where people either cannot use English for such purposes, or where majority would prefer local language if the could choose.
By the way, "English" above here may be easily replaced with "Russian", as there are no massively printed Perl books in Ukrainian or Belarussian.
Re:Thanks, uh, kinda
andy.sh on 2009-09-11T18:30:56
Ah, in the Italian mailing list people discussed recently that they should aware of using English word "free", and should prefer one of two more precise Italian words, one for saying "no cost" and another for "having freedom"
:-)
"Capture" is the name of a type, which you'll have to use literally in your Russian texts anyway - why not just use it everywhere?
I tried to translate parts of the Synopsis to German, and I found that translating all of the words would skew the meaning too far.
Anyway, if you insist on finding a translation, maybe something like "snapshot"? in my understanding a capture is a snapshot of a collection of things that can be passed to a subroutine...
Re:What's wrong with "Capture"?
andy.sh on 2009-08-26T20:32:43
Thanks, but does not the name "snapshot" suppose that the value of the argiments of a capture will be frozen at the moment of creating the capture?
Re:What's wrong with "Capture"?
Aristotle on 2009-08-27T08:34:45
Yeah, “snapshot” is not good as a synonym. Maybe you can use the translation of “to seize”?
Re:What's wrong with "Capture"?
andy.sh on 2009-08-27T08:39:26
It seems so that both "capture" and "seizure" result in the same word after translation.
Re:What's wrong with "Capture"?
andy.sh on 2009-08-27T08:45:49
I've rambled through the dictionary and found a phrase "sample capture" in the dictionary of computer terms and phrases. It means "the process of creating a set OR the set of selected elements". I like it as there is a direct word in Russian to describe it.
Re:What's wrong with "Capture"?
andy.sh on 2009-08-26T20:34:21
Wrong with "capture" is that direct translation is not self-descriptive.
