I don't understand why the US has to get involved with the Middle East crisis - why can't we just step back and let 'em duke it out? The whole situation is so frustrating and after many failed peace attempts, I don't understand why any peace that comes from our current efforts will "stick".
This naive moment brought to you by the letter 'N'. ;)
Jason
PS: Sorry I haven't written in a while - went to a wedding and moved into a new house. Busy busy!
Re:US getting out would be great
ziggy on 2002-04-05T15:24:15
No, it would force Israel to stop defending herself.... it would force Israel to stop using military force to "solve" it's problems. Re:US getting out would be great
autarch on 2002-04-05T18:18:58
Slaughtering Palestinians is a really poor defense strategy. I, as much as anyone, would like to see fewer Israeli citizens being blown to bits.
But the best way to do that is to provide a real Palestinian state, where young men have something to do besides sitting around unemployed all day feeling frustrated. You know, jobs, that sort of thing.
But the US makes sure that Israel can continue to use a violent military "solution", even though it solves nothing. Killing someone's friends and neighbors is not the way to peace.Re:US getting out would be great
ziggy on 2002-04-05T18:41:05
That is one of a host of possible descriptions for what is going on today.Slaughtering Palestinians is a really poor defense strategy.I don't see how withholding foreign aid or military equipment is a necessary pre-requisite to that plan. I also think the situation is significantly more complex than your simplification makes it sound.But the best way to do that is to provide a real Palestinian state, where young men have something to do besides sitting around unemployed all day feeling frustrated.I also trust that Messrs. Blair, Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Zinni, Carter, Clinton, Christopher, Arafat, Sharon, Netanyahu, Peres, and the late Mr. Rabin all intimiately understand this fact. If there were a simple solution to this issue, surely it would have been resolved at some point over the last 50 years, or at least over the last fifteen (once the PLO decided to co-exist with Israel instead of push it to the sea).
Re:US getting out would be great
autarch on 2002-04-05T18:59:35
Well, I don't trust any of those people you listed, particularly the ones currently in power. Neither Arafat nor Sharon are trustworthy, nor do they have the best interests of their people at heart. It just so happens that Sharon has a lot of US money and weapons to play with so he gets to indulge his taste for violence and destruction to his heart's content.
In fact, I think that the majority of the Palestinian and Israeli people _would_ accept a simple solution, if only the powers that be would let them.
As Matts already pointed out though, there's more to it than just the plight of the Palestinians, with oil and the so-called "war on terror" (read: justification for increased US military expenditures and human rights violations) in play, we can hardly expect anyone to care much about little things like human beings.
I think it's rather naive of you to believe that the people you listed actually give a damn about the Palestinians or the Israelis, given their actions in power, but I guess once you've absorbed enough American news media you're ready to believe anything.Re:US getting out would be great
ziggy on 2002-04-05T19:21:57
Actually, my POV wasn't tempered by CNN, but by living in Israel. Mighty presumptive of you to think otherwise....I think it's rather naive of you to believe that the people you listed actually give a damn about the Palestinians or the Israelis, given their actions in power, but I guess once you've absorbed enough American news media you're ready to believe anything.If you go back and read what I said, it just a simple statement that the region is filled with complex interests which defy a simple solution. That is to say, if this conflict could have been solved to everyone's satisfaction by removing US Aid+munitions from the Israelis, or by employing the Palestinians -- or both -- then we would have seen a solution long ago. You're free to trust or distrust anyone who has had their hands in attempting to broker a peace in the region, or for that the warmongers and terrorists in the region as well.
But the situation encourages simplification, and defies simple solutions.
Really? Have you talked to a representative sample of Israelis? Palestinians? Arabs in the Levant?In fact, I think that the majority of the Palestinian and Israeli people _would_ accept a simple solution, if only the powers that be would let them.There is no such thing as a majority opinion on the Israeli side or the Palestinian side.
Re:Oil.
Purdy on 2002-04-05T19:21:01
Not sure I understand - sure, there's oil in the middle east, but not in Israel (or Palestine). Is it because if we keep Israel happy and in our pocket, it's a neighbor to the oil-producing countries?Jason
Sure, there is the slight risk that my plans will go awry and it'll end up blowing a mile-wide hole in the Earth's crust, spraying enough gack into the atmosphere to put us into another ice age. But if you wanna make an omlette, you gotta break some eggs. Am I right, people?
Re:Rearranging the map
ziggy on 2002-04-05T15:21:49
I think that part of the world can live with a mile-wide scar in the crust. That will just mean that the Grand Canyon won't be the only surface feature on the planet with that property.The really crucial thing you can't do here is make a hole that's deeper than the Dead Sea. Imagine all of the tourist revenue the Israelis, Jordanians and Palestinians will lose if that becomes the second lowest point on land on the planet!
