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Not want an iBook

Matts on 2002-07-15T07:02:09

Does anyone *not* want an iBook? If not why not?

I can think of many positive sides, but not the negative. What are the downers? Proprietary hardware? Crappy wavelan performance? Annoying HFS?

Come on - what's *wrong* with the iBook?

The Problems with iBooks

koschei on 2002-07-15T07:14:34

  1. Too expensive
  2. Screens too small. TiBook sounds better.
  3. Too expensive
  4. I don't have one
  5. Too expensive

Of course, for all I know, the maintenance costs make it cheaper, but the initial cost means i'm not getting my T?iBook for a while yet. Hmm. Maybe I should rent one.

Re:The Problems with iBooks

Elian on 2002-07-15T14:30:54

Expensive? I dunno. Base model's only $1200, and that's if you can't get a developer or educational discount.

Re:The Problems with iBooks

koschei on 2002-07-15T23:12:34

My current employment hasn't been for too long. (I see my first pay next week.) Not much in the way of savings left, so even $1200 is expensive. That said, I'm not much of a fan of base models =(

Again, that's why I'm more inclined for a TiBook - you get a better screen for a start...

Re:The Problems with iBooks

Elian on 2002-07-15T23:35:30

I dunno. While the TiBook has great gobs of power to burn and that huge screen, it's also pretty fragile as these things go.

If the screen is the deciding factor, that's fine. If not, well, even though it's slower, the iBook still has power to burn. Granted, in the "overkill" range rather than the "huge overkill" range, but still.... power to burn is still power to burn. :)

Re:The Problems with iBooks

koschei on 2002-07-16T01:25:12

Yeah, the screen is a deciding factor. A big one
(comparatively).

Also, for reference, I'd been thinking of the
price you mentioned in $Aus rather than $US, so,
um, just rereading what I wrote now that I'm
thinking of it in converted terms (double it),
damn these machines are expensive =)

Is the iBook much sturdier than a TiBook?

(<i>makes a note to go to his Apple dealer
and start knocking things onto the floor</i>;
should go anyway to see how the screens compare).

cheers,

Re:The Problems with iBooks

Elian on 2002-07-16T05:09:16

Are the sturdier? Well, they feel so. The TiBooks feel awfully flimsy. I also know of a number of people with busted TiBooks, but none with broken iBooks. (And I know I've abused mine some, but it's still going fine)

no pccard port

ask on 2002-07-15T07:34:54


I use pc card foo to transfer photos from my microdrives. :-)

and screen is a bit small; but that makes the whole box smaller so it's a plus too.

  - ask

Line in?

kasei on 2002-07-15T07:54:51

Does the iBook have a line-in port? The Ti doesn't, and I find this to be a real downer as I used to import my new vinyl into iTunes, but can't do that anymore (without extra hardware).

Re:Line in?

Elian on 2002-07-15T14:28:14

Nope, no line in. I had to spring for an external iMic from Griffen. (My local Apple Store carries the thing. Has line/mic in port and audio out for hooking to external speakers. It's pretty nice.

Re:Line in?

blech on 2002-07-16T11:24:08

The latest revision of the TiPB (with DVI out and the larger screen) reinstates an audio in jack.

UI of the hardware

darobin on 2002-07-15T09:58:43

Apart from the outrageous pricing policy (which is nevertheless better for the iBooks) the two things I hate most about iBooks are the one-button mouse -- possibly the most braindead decision in computer design ever -- and the keyboard with a mapping of its own (also violates a bunch of sane design principles imho). I know you can remap it but then you have to put little stickers on the keys. It should have been right from the start.

Of course, that won't be sufficient to keep me from buying one as soon as I have the money ;-)

Mouse

jdavidb on 2002-07-15T12:14:33

Experienced Apple users are usually quite content with the one button mouse. I actually use Debian on my iBook, with F11 and F12 mapped to the middle and right mouse buttons. It bothered me for a month or so, but I strangely got used to it.

Of course, when I first saw a mouse with more than one button in a store as a kid, I couldn't understand it and wondered what the point was. I continued to wonder all the way through grade school, secondary school, and my first couple of years of college. Then I got my job, used X for the first time, and finally understood. ;)

Re:Mouse

darobin on 2002-07-15T12:38:35

Yes that's what I heard but to me it's reminiscent of Windows users getting used to the crashes and freezes ;-) If I move my hand away from my keyboard I still want to have maximum functionality available. The only reason why I use a five button mouse is because I haven't yet laid my hands on a seven or nine button mouse... I almost need a rolling keyboard there!

Re:Mouse

Elian on 2002-07-15T14:35:52

So throw a multibutton mouse on the thing. I use a two-button trackball most of the time, and a five-button one when I really need the extra buttons. OS X supports up to five-button mice in the core event system (there are events for buttons 1 through 5) and if you need more, well, usually the vendor has a driver to do it.

Re:Mouse

darobin on 2002-07-15T14:54:25

That is precisely what I was thinking of doing, and one of the reasons I'll definitely still buy one as soon as I can afford it. I just think that it's a shame that the pad doesn't have more as it's not always convenient to have a mouse around. Oh well, no laptop is ever perfect :)

Re:Mouse

Theory on 2002-07-24T23:15:08

ctrl-click on the mousepad is equivalent to a right-click. I use a 3-button mouse at home, but the ctrl-click doesn't bother me much when I don't have my mouse handy.

A few things against the ibook (not desktops)

2shortplanks on 2002-07-15T11:00:17

  • Trackpad. I don't like trackpads. I like the joystick 'nipple' things you get on IBMs and Dells.
  • One mouse button. It's been said before and I'll say it again. I was using an imac this w/e and I hated having to reach for the ctrl key for the context menu.
  • Heavy. The ibook weights 2.2Kg, where my current laptop weights 1.4Kg, making an ibook half as heavy again.
Hmm, a list of things that'll stop me buying an ibook - though I'm still considering an apple desktop machine (with a two button mouse...)

Why?

ct on 2002-07-15T13:36:46

Only a G3, though how relevant that is in laptop world is to be determined. If I recall from gnat's descriptions of YAPC, I think he did part of the movie editing on a G3 iBook. The mac bigot Art guy here at work has a G3/500 "Pismo", the predecessor of the iBook, and he said "A G4 is nice, but there's still alot of life in a G3."

I spent alot of time at the local Apple Store, and at a CompUSA playing around with both an iBook 14" G3/700 and a TiBook 54/800. For web browsing, and word processing and the like, I didn't notice much difference. I didn't mind the keyboard. People complain about the location of capslock and the like, but there are OSX extensions that will remap that for you.

I do dislike a single mouse button, but, like others have said, you can work around that. Or you can hook up an external mouse. I'd wager 90% of my laptop time will be spent at a desk, either at home or at work.

My only problem with the iBook is, even though it's speedy enough to do what I need, I am tired of always being one generation behind. When people were using Pentiums, I was running a 486/66. Today I run a dual PPro and several p2/266's. If I'm going to spend money on a new machine, I'm ready to get something new.

In the end, I'll probably end up with a 14" iBook 700, upgraded to 640megs RAM. Why? You asked for the downside to an iBook. Here's the upside.

-It's small. -Reported spectacular WiFi range. -It runs OSX, which, as far as I can tell, works the way I want to work. -It's relatively inexpensive. I don't think $1799 for it is out of line.

A friend of mine, a long time pc/linux guy, has switched to OSX almost entirely. He uses a TiBook 700, his wife has an iBook, his home machine is a Dual 1Ghz powermac as his desktop/digital audio workstation/DVD or CD Burner/Samba Server/Apache Server/etc. He put it better than anyone I've seen yet. "It just works, so I can just work."

Reasons not to buy an iBook

ziggy on 2002-07-15T16:28:06

These are some quirks I noticed on my iBook. Listed in no particular order:
  • No line in
  • The trackpad is way too big. I've got a teeny tiny Dell Inspiron that I use (about 3.4lb), and that has a perfectly sized trackpad. As it stands, the iBook gets epileptic mouse syndrome
  • One button mouse. I have yet to get used to the "control-click", "command-click", "option-click" idioms.
  • The USB ports are on the left side; works in general, but if you get an external mouse (I haven't, yet), then the ports are on the wrong side of the iBook if you're right handed
  • OS X. The only reason to get an iBook is to run OS X, really. The hardware is pretty, but you can do better if all you want to do is run Debian. OS X is quite good, but it does get sluggish on occasion. Perhaps Jaguar will fix those issues (signs point to "yes").
  • Terminal.app. It's great, and it's built in, but it's emulation isn't really that good. The only alternative I've found at the moment is to run XDarwin (through OroboOSX). The nice thing is that there's a theme or two that looks pretty close to my customized Aqua desktop, and it runs true xterms and gvim. The not-so-nice thing is that it takes forever to start up and isn't really integrated into the rest of the Aqua experience.
  • perl5.6.0 is the system perl.
  • make install doesn't work when you're building Perl. mv INSTALL INSTALL.txt; make install instead.
  • Netinfo. Love it or hate it. I've given my computer a name, but hostname still comes back with 'localhost'. Do all you want to /etc/passwd; it won't make a whole lot of difference...
  • No console on boot. Can't see what those messages are, if you really want to. (There has to be a way to do this; I haven't found out how yet.) Only issue if you don't like pretty progress bars one bit.
  • Virtual PC. If you really want to run x86 software (like gentoo in emulation ;-), then VirtualPC is painfully slow on a G3. Usable, but slow.
  • Max RAM is 640MB.
  • Max resolution is 1024x768. A very generous, and readable 1024x786, but no 1600x1200. :-)
  • HFS. Filesystems should be case sensitive (OS X doesn't like ufs very much at the moment)
  • Touchy-feely filesystem layout (/Users, /Developer, /System, /System/Library, etc. are where things really happen; /usr, /usr/local are just symlinks to the real working parts of the OS.)
  • Bizarre locations for header files; strange linkage options (what's -flatnamespace? when and why do I need -framework CarbonServices?)


Of course, that's offset by a few items in the "pluses" column:
  • Everything just works. It takes more time to unlearn your old bad habits than it does to just use something the way it should be used. (iTunes and iPhoto are great examples here).
  • Aqua, iTunes, iPhoto, Preview, and AppleWorks
  • No Intel Inside(tm)
  • I routinely get about 4 hours off a freshly charged battery with AirPort. I think I get just over one hour on my "high capacity" subnotebook battery with wireless, close to two without.
  • Everything is crisp and clean, from the case down to the system sounds and the speaker system
  • Everything just works.
  • A full development environment is include (InterfaceBuilder, ProjectBuilder, gcc, etc.).
  • fink install bundle-tetex
  • Everything is permissions based, but you don't get the infernal "You don't have permission to perform this action" that Winn't gives you. Instead, you get a padlock icon that needs to be unlocked to install software or tweak settings. Graphical sudo. :-)
Add it all up, and I'm happy. Even with all of those gripes. Nothing's perfect, after all... :-)

To reiterate.

ct on 2002-07-18T16:33:51

Everything JUST WORKS

I bought my iBook two nights ago. (I'll do a journal entry shortly with thoughts.) I continue to be shocked at how EASY, things are.

Re:To reiterate.

ziggy on 2002-07-18T16:45:36

Every time I come across something that doesn't work (or doesn't work the way I've come to expect it to work), I poke around a little. Eventually I come to one of two conclusions:
  • That's fair. (You can't launch an Aqua app directly on the command line, like you can with Windows or X; you need to use the open command)
  • That's better. (The print drivers are pretty spartan, but they always have a preview button. It generates a PDF file, which automagically opens up in Preview. I like being able to generate PDFs on the fly without any effort.)

Re:To reiterate.

robin on 2002-07-19T15:38:23

I'm straying into pointless-pedantry territory, but you can execute an Aqua app directly; for example:
/Applications/Preview.app/Contents/MacOS/Preview
In other words, there's an executable binary at the heart of the .app which can be executed in the ordinary way.

I do love the open command though - especially the way it can work out which application to use for a particular file. For example, here is my .mailcap in its entirety:

application/*; open %s&read
(The "read" is there to get around the fact that open returns immediately, so that without it mutt will delete the temporary attachment file before the application has had a chance to open it.)

Verbose startup

vsergu on 2002-07-18T17:13:40

No console on boot. Can't see what those messages are, if you really want to. (There has to be a way to do this; I haven't found out how yet.)

Hold down command-V during startup. Can't remember where I found it -- I think in some Usenet message when I was googling for something else.

my $2.50

pudge on 2002-07-18T20:27:30

Reasons not to buy an iBook:

  • 12" model too small.
  • 14" model too heavy.
  • Graphics card way underpowered for anything 3D-intensive (OpenGL support is dog-slow, for example).
  • Apple screwed its users with .mac and a high price for Mac OS X 10.2.
  • A G3 does have a lot of life in it, but Mac OS X is *much* happier on a G4.


I recommend iBooks to people, both before and after I bought my TiBook. I still recommend TiBooks the same way I did before I bought mine: if you need it/want it, get it. Otherwise get the iBook. I felt I needed it for the extra horsepower, larger screen (without being as bulky as 14" iBook), and video card.