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Plane spotting == spying

Matts on 2002-04-26T15:01:36

I'm quite shocked that these guys have been convicted. I've heard rumours that they've never heard of plane spotting in Greece. Maybe there's more to it than I know, but it seems extremely unlikely that all 12 people were involved in espionage of any sort. The greek authorities presented no evidence that they were passing the information on. Merely that they had it. Wow.

So what?

Simon on 2002-04-26T15:23:40

This happens here too. It's only because it was British people abroad that the media makes a fuss about what EVIL NAZIS these Greeks must be and how these innocent Britons can do no wrong. If the signs say you'll get arrested if you take pictures, and then you take pictures and get arrested, who should you go crying to?

Re:So what?

Matts on 2002-04-26T15:47:31

That doesn't make what happened right. We all take risks in life. I go over the speed limit every day. Do I deserve to be thrown in prison for that? I doubt anyone would argue that I do.

Re:So what?

Simon on 2002-04-27T09:02:02

I go over the speed limit every day. Do I deserve to be thrown in prison for that?

*sigh*. Useless analogy; that's not what happens to convicted speeders over here. It is what happens to people who breaks laws concerning military establishments, however.

Re:So what?

Matts on 2002-04-27T15:45:57

The reasonable thing to do in this situation would have been to confiscate their film and notepads, and give them a bloody good rollocking. These guys weren't spies - they don't deserve to be treated as spies. If you disagree with that issue, I could understand your viewpoint. But otherwise I simply cannot agree.

greeks and geeks

TeeJay on 2002-04-26T15:37:17

Unfortunately the greek forces are really uptight about anything at all like this. There were experts testifying that the information they collected is freely available and of no value as espionage material. Nothing they scribbled in their notepads or photo'd could not be found easier in a Janes or other militeria book or journal.

The courts and police were operating under pressure of the military, and clearly resented any attempted interference by the greek government. Greece after all has an independant judiciary that values its independance and will do the opposite of what anybody wants given the chance.

I guess that taking photos of anything military looking in greece is risky, and these people should have ensured they had written permission for everything they did rather than thhe other way around.

Yow! Am I in the EU yet?

TorgoX on 2002-04-26T19:37:19

I'm glad the EU, the embodiment of Western European values, has expanded to include countries that clearly don't have them! I'm not sure which is the more apt phrase for the EU on this point: "unclear on the concept", "permanent fatal error", or "Abort, Retry, Fail?".

Why not try to include Indonesia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia too, just for good measure?

Re:Yow! Am I in the EU yet?

mir on 2002-04-27T01:24:53

Probably because including countries in the EU prevents them for going to war...
Greece being in the EU and Turkey wanting to get in has probably avoided a war or two between those two countries.

Re:Yow! Am I in the EU yet?

darobin on 2002-04-28T21:18:32

It's a simple strategy: taking people in that aren't quite respecting the promoted values tends to draw them into respecting them better than excluding them does. It's for similar reasons that France maintained diplomatic relations with Russia while all the way condemning them, despite strong internal pressure to break them. Back then Hubert Védrine, Minister of Foreign Affairs and long time brilliant diplomat, answered: "If we stop talking to them, who will?".

Diplomacy's a very dirty job, but you precisely don't want Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, or Australia to step in for you.