I'm really shocked at the lack of proposals for YAPC::NA::2006. I am also really shocked at the lack of them for '05. Years previous there were plenty to choose from!
So, what's up people? Why are you not putting in proposals, as opposed to years past? Is it the time you may have to put into it? Unsure you'd be able to pull it off? Not enough of a support system to help?
YAPC::NA::2003 proposals - 6+
YAPC::NA::2004 proposals - 6+
YAPC::NA::2005 proposals - 1 (Toronto... which was a good place anyways)
YAPC::NA::2006 proposals - 0 (as of now, which is past the original deadline)
YAPC isn't like OSCON where you can expect it to occur every year. If people don't get involved, it won't live on. It's not something you can sit on your duff and expect someone else will do it. You HAVE to participate and host the conference for it to happen. After all, that's what grass roots is all about. It's really a great experience to organize it, and a fabulous way to give back to the Perl community.
So what's up people? Why are you not proposing? What's changed in the past few years? What can we as a community do to change this? What can TPF do?
Let's make sure YAPC::NA doesn't die out. That would be a real shame. Plus, all of you wouldn't fit in my house as the "last resort venue" ;-)
Have you thought of letting the previous candidates know of the lack of proposals? Maybe you've done this already, but I couldn't go without mentioning the possibility of emailing all of them...
Re:Previous candidates?
KM on 2005-09-15T13:34:35
I believe most have either been emailed, or spoken to in person at some point in the process. Of course, they shouldn't *need* to be asked. They know when the CFV is happening. We're all adults:-)
But that raises another question. If you someone proposes one year, and doesn't get it.. why are they not in there the next being the first to propose with an even better bid?Re:Previous candidates?
cog on 2005-09-15T13:37:19
Well, perhaps because they think they might lose again?:-) That's what you should explain them, that at least one of them will win the bid :-) Re:Previous candidates?
KM on 2005-09-15T13:49:07
Heh. But, they should realize that if nobody bids, everybody loses.
I guess we could add that to the YAPC Bid docs "At least one of you will win."Re:Previous candidates?
barbie on 2005-09-15T14:57:18
I can imagine for some it may be a lot of hard work to prepare the bid, and to go through the process again, only to be knocked back, may be too much effort. Remember this is a volunteer effort, not everyone has the free time to prepare bids again and again.
Have the groups that have previously bid changed leadership or membership, that means the same enthusiasm isn't there any more?
This is the first time I've ever really seen any metrics for the number of groups applying for chance to host a YAPC::NA, and I know the last few YAPC::Europe weren't too hotly contested. Perhaps there needs to be more visibility of this sort of thing to help generate interest. Should there be more help for previous bidders to ease the cycle of resubmitting?
The documentation for organising a conference is out-of-date and inappropriate in places. That can scare potential bidders off. Organising a conference isn't easy, creating unnecessary hurdles can make it worse. I would also suggest http://www.yapc.org/ needs an update.
The burden of organising is always on the local group. There is now a lot of experience from previous organisers that is being wasted by not being shared. I have only ever seen Jonas' piece regarding organising the Nordic Workshop, if there are any other documents to help guide others they aren't accessible. There must be countless of different letters for approaching sponsors, caterers, venues, etc, that could easily be made in to a conference pack for prospective organisers, so that they have a starting point. Starting from scratch every time is not going to improve organising a conference.
I'm looking forward to attending YAPC::NA, wherever it happens to be, I just hope that the prospective organisers out there get the support needed to get it up and running in such a short space of time. In regards to the latter, why is the deadline AFTER the YAPC::NA? The timelines for YAPC::Europe work much better and mean the annoucement happens at the conference for next year, and the next organisers have a year to organise themselves, not 6-9 months.
Re:Previous candidates?
KM on 2005-09-15T15:49:03
To be honest, I didn't think preparing a bid was "difficult", although others may not have the same experience. Here's what I did (and won the bid)* Made a list of possible venues
* Got the venue req's list
* Called each venue and went through the list
* Wrote down prices they gave
* Wrote down available dates
* Chose the best priced and suitable venue
* Wrote the figures down, a little about the venue, about the area, etc... from the venue req's list.
* Emailed it
It took me (alone) no more than a week to go through about 8 venues, and write something up. Again, I'm sure others may experience some pain while talking to venues. I know some I called were a PITA to get info from. But, if I lost the bid (and stayed living in FL) I would have just called back FAU for room availability and current rates, then resubmitted. The main legwork was already done.
Have the groups that have previously bid changed leadership or membership, that means the same enthusiasm isn't there any more?
Very possible. But, the CFV goes out soon after YAPC::NA. If you're not motivated then, when would you be?
:-) I'd think that's when people would think "I wish this was in my town." and take that back to their PM group/co-workers/whomever and start the "let's host a YAPC" discussion. Perhaps there needs to be more visibility of this sort of thing to help generate interest.
You have a good point. Maybe some think their town won't measure up to who may be proposing. But, if they knew bids were low, they could get motivated.
And yes, docs can be updated. But, we do live in the age of interweb, where people can ask questions and get whatever help they need. I've always made myself available to help people get a bid together. One things about docs, is they are best written by organizers. And, they are usually so burnt out on the topic after the con, they last thing they want to do is document it
:-) Then, it falls through the cracks. But, people for YAPC::NA don't start from scratch. They can get whatever help they need for a bid, then once they win they have PLENTY of help. I think (hope) both Jim and Rich could attest that I was there every step of the way. Letting them know when things should occur, helping get appropriate sponsor contacts, helping with the budget, etc... We're here for ya folks!
:-) Thanks for the response, it's some food for thought.
Re:Previous candidates?
barbie on 2005-09-16T06:41:52
I think the key thing is passion. Some of us have the drive to do this, and make it all worthwhile. Others who might be interested, need encouragement that they can do it. I think the bidding process needs to be made clearer in what people need to think about, as if you can't see what you need to think about it can be a daunting task. People helped Birmingham.pm, because we made a big song and dance about the fact we were going for it. Anyone who wasn't so vocal wouldn't necessarily get the same help.
When I started looking for what people did to bid back in 2003, there was just the venue doc. Which both for me seemed more tailored to the US stage and impose unnecessary requirements. I created our initial draft proposal based on my experiences of every single YAPC::Europe. A skeleton template would have been helpful if I didn't have that experience.
I think a lot of the onus is on previous organisers to finish off their commitment, and submit or patch documents, so that future organisers can concentrate on making the best conference possible. It's a shame that has been falling through the cracks
:( We're here for ya folks!
:-) I know you are, as is every other organising crew, but starting the ball rolling doesn't always mean you get approached.
Thinking about it, would there be any worth in requesting that potential bidders contact YAPC first. It might help you to know in advance whether there are candidates, and those who you can keep in contact with to ensure they have everything they need.
Re:Previous candidates?
KM on 2005-09-16T12:44:13
Thinking about it, would there be any worth in requesting that potential bidders contact YAPC firstI think we always have, non officially, encouraged people to contact us. I think a good thing for every next YAPC is to make sure a YAPC BOF is held, so everyone possibly interested in doing one is in a single room. I know at every YAPC before I proposed is when I was most motivated to propose. It could also be a good way to get contact info so we can follow up.
Of course, to do this, we'll need another YAPC
:-) Hopefully, Boston will pull through, or someone else reading this will step up. Re:Previous candidates?
barbie on 2005-09-17T06:42:06
Actually there was one at YAPC::Europe::2004 in Belfast that was well attended. My PerlMongersBOF was well attended this year, so I shall look to having both in the schedule for next year at YAPC::Europe::2006. I'm very interested in encouraging new blood to get involved.Re:Previous candidates?
cbrandtbuffalo on 2005-09-15T20:27:11
In the cases I know of where I personally approached previous bidders, life happened. It wasn't an issue of being rejected. But that happens often in the open source community.
As Kevin is handing things off to me as TPF Conference Chair, one thing I can commit to is trying to capture more info. We've actually already done this here:
http://www.jbisbee.com/yapc/index.cgi
and I'm going to try to keep updating that.
We've talked about moving up the date so we can announce the next year location at the current year YAPC and we may try to do that.
The other group we didn't hit was yapc attendees via the yapc list. That's another approach I want to consider, and I may include an appeal at YAPC itself to get people thinking about hosting.
BTW, Barbie, I'm here to help if I can with any of your YAPC::Europe issues. It would be nice if NA and Europe could share more info (actually all YAPCs).Re:Previous candidates?
barbie on 2005-09-16T06:23:37
http://www.jbisbee.com/yapc/index.cgi
This is excellent. This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be more visiable and updated after each conference. The missing pieces for me would be the draft letters. Some of us are really bad at writing, and using the experience of previous organisers makes sure we all know what works and what doesn't. The sponsor list is also very useful. For YAPC::Europe::2006 we are hoping to be able to extend that list.
The other group we didn't hit was yapc attendees via the yapc list.
That is something that is worth investigating. I did a PerlMongersBOF at YAPC::Europe::2005 in the hope it would attract several newcomers, as it the one at OSCON 2000 did me. Hopefully things like that will help to encourage the new blood to get more involved.
I'm here to help if I can with any of your YAPC::Europe issues
Thanks, much appreciated. We have been tapping the minds of the last couple of organising crews, so we're hoping to build on what they have done.
It would be nice if NA and Europe could share more info
Agreed, and I plan to write up some detailed notes at the end of next year.
Re:Previous candidates?
cbrandtbuffalo on 2005-09-16T12:34:45
And I guess it would be easier for me to help if you could contact me.:)
email: cbrandt [at] buffalo [dot] edu
IM: cbrandtbuffalo [at] mac.com (Works with AOL)
