TPJ Shrinkage

ziggy on 2001-10-30T21:59:17

davorg writes "It seems that the October issue of SysAdmin Magazine when out to most European subscribers without the expected copy of TPJ #21. Apparently TPJ will be mailed out separately in the next couple of weeks. When I emailed CMP to ask them about this, the reply include the following:

However we are correcting this problem by making The Perl Journal part of the actual text of Sys Admin. So now there will be just one issue total . All the information of The Perl will be contained within Sys Admin on a quarterly basis.

Is that right?"

Jon Orwant, former publisher of TPJ, has confirmed this information is correct.

---

This Sucks

belg4mit on 2001-10-31T07:10:54

Don't get me wrong, I have no beef with
them and thankful they picked up TPJ.
But honestly, I'd much rather have a
smaller less frequent dedicated rag
than this. If I want to buy a magazine
about Perl I want to by a magazine about *Perl*, knowhadeyemean?

Re:This Sucks

tagg on 2001-10-31T07:56:09

I totally agree. I have a SysAdmin subscription, and I have no intention of slagging off SA, but TPJ is (was) in a whole other league. Embedding the odd Perl article in SA won't change that.

I was sincerely hoping for TPJ to continue as a separate mag, since I keep every single issue of TPJ, often referring back to old articles. One reading of SA is usually enough.

If they really wanted to maintain the spirit of TPJ, they should have merged it into Dr. Dobb's Journal instead, matching the technical level much better.

This will truly be the end of TPJ as we know it. Oh, bother!

Re:This Sucks

merlyn on 2001-10-31T17:30:56

Embedding the odd Perl article in SA won't change that.

Hey, a lot more than that. One of my three columns appears every other month there!

It'll be interesting though, to see what they do with my column, since they'll presumedly have a whole perl "section" in the magazine now. I wonder if I'll have to coordinate my ideas with them first to ensure minimal duplication of topic.

Re:This Sucks

dturley on 2001-10-31T19:43:48

What sucks is I paid money to Earthweb for a subscription right before they stole the subscription monies and ran. I thought perhaps I might get something (other than screwed) when I heard TPJ was coming back. I already subscribe to SysAdmin so I'm still out.

Lesson: Don't subscribe to computing mags. I should have learned when the publishers of Byte stole my payment.

Pathetic

unimatrix on 2001-10-31T09:00:20

...that a language like Perl can't even maintain one dedicated journal. I trust the best has been tried to maintain TPJ in this time of economic crisis, but it's disheartening nevertheless.

I'd rather read it online. And hope it doesn't go the way of PerlMonth. I strongly hope that perl.com isn't the only site which concentrates on Perl articles or the language will be maneuvered into more of a niche than it already is in.

Maybe the valiant efforts to improve Perl should go beyond the language.

Marcel
--

Re:Pathetic

pudge on 2001-10-31T13:41:32

I don't see how problems with TPJ reflect on the language.

Re:Pathetic misunderstood

jjohn on 2001-10-31T14:09:34

TPJ's current slimming down isn't the result of the current ecomony, waning Perl's popularity or the government chip inserted into my behind. Many, many people are still using and loving Perl. Scripting languages have a tough row to hoe in the magazine publishing biz. The Python Journal? VBScript Weekly? Tcl Testimonals? I don't think so. Perl is a stealth technology. It quietly gets the job done and no one makes a fuss about it.

In lieu of a better idea, I think sending polite postal letters to:

CMP Media
Attn: Amber Ankerholz
600 Harrison St.
San Francisco, CA 94107

would do a lot of good. Express your desire to see TPJ exist as a separate publication. Letters are better than email.

Disappointing but...

MeerCat on 2001-10-31T10:00:22

... do single language ever survive ? I like TPJ (I even wrote a short article for it) but to be honest the single-language magazines are always going to struggle. C/C++ User Journal - a joke for years - limps by. Microsoft subsidise a VB magazine that is basically just advertising to get the VB hoards to buy .NET or whatever else they're pushing next. There are Java and XML magazines too, but essentially TIMTOWTDI means that sometimes you have to read other languages to get ideas.

Computer Language was a great magazine before it went bust and turned into the naff Software Development - Dr Dobbs survives but more and more as "I wrote this - let me tell you about it and you can buy it from me later"...

A decent programming magazine should encourage you to look up from your niche, discard your blinkers - if only so you can decide that the way you're doing it now is fine... and for that you need generalism...

All, of course, IMHO....

T

Sad or even more sad.

bodin on 2001-10-31T12:27:09

I would probably have been sad if the tpj disappeared entierly. Today I received the second plastic bag from SysAdmin and it was sad. It was like meeting an old friend that was all in rags and could almost not be recognised.
I have all back-issues and you can spot the difference drunk and blindfolded in a dark room.
I think tpj deserved a better destiny than becoming a "supplement". And it is not about the money. It's the about the quality.
I truly believe that it is not Jon Orwants fault - but he must be one of the most sadest friend of tpj right now.
Nah. I'll probably not renew if it goes like this. It would be much better to have a revival in another body.

As the old saying goes...

hfb on 2001-10-31T15:43:58

No good deed goes unpunished.

SA Mag is established, stable and reaches a large Perl using audience. Would you rather not have anything at all? Publishing a magazine is a lot of hard work for both the writers of the articles and the people who make it happen. I'd rather have the old journal back but that isn't going to happen. Be happy it is being published.

Re:As the old saying goes...

pudge on 2001-10-31T16:00:22

I don't see what is so hard to understand. People want TPJ, and they are not getting it, so they are upset. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. TPJ is NOT being published, that's the problem.

Re:As the old saying goes...

hfb on 2001-10-31T17:30:44

The content is being published, just in a different format. What about there being more than one way to do it?

Re:As the old saying goes...

pudge on 2001-10-31T17:54:42

Some of the content, yes. But it is not TPJ any longer; at least, not as we knew and loved it. I am not saying the new way is bad, and I don't think most others are saying that either; but it is not the same thing. It is something different. Yes, there is more than one way to do it, and those ways, being more than one, are different, and have different pros and cons.

Allow that there is room for people to be unhappy that something they loved is gone.

Re:As the old saying goes...

bodin on 2001-10-31T18:15:08

Please say that the new way is bad. Because it is. It would be much better to increase the subscription fee with 100% and do the old TPJ again. I would definitively buy it.

But it won't happen. This will be "TPJ":s death.

Sorry, but this sucks...

bleargh on 2001-10-31T16:36:02

As much as I've enjoyed reading TPJ for the last several years here, it really sucks to know that I'm no longer going to be able to pick it up except as a supplement to a magazine I've never liked.

Heck, it was bad enough before knowing that it was several dollars cheaper per issue to pick it up on the newsstand than to get a subscription (Canada). And now if I want to pick it up I've got to buy a whole other magazine just to read the "supplement".

Given the circumstances, if TPJ isn't going to be published as its own separate mag, I'd just as soon rather see it not get published at all or publish solely online. Sorry Jon, its not a personal thing; I understand that you've done everything you can to ensure that TPJ continues to get published and out to the readers, and I appreciate that. Personally, though, I've never been a fan of SysAdmin, and having to pick that up just to get a shunked sized TPJ isn't worth the $$$ I'd be spending on it up here (SysAdmin is seriously expensive to pick up on the newsstands up here).

*arched eyebrow of doubt*

chaoticset on 2001-10-31T16:50:37

I was afraid this would happen. I found out about the TPJ just before it got sucked up into this thing.

I guess this means I'll be trying to get my local bookstore to carry Sysadmin, and then reading it at the store.

Perhaps something else will pick up and try to fill the void. I'll be watching.

whine, whine, whine...

jhi on 2001-10-31T18:37:07

"this sucks"
"this just plain sucks"
"TPJ is dead"
"Perl will die"
"we are all doomed" "the end is nigh"

Would you all stop whining and actually do something about it? Like write more good articles to TPJ so that CMP sees that Perl is viable business? If you have expertise in some other field, say, bioinformatics, economics, linguistics, write also to your own specialist magazines and publications, extolling the virtues and benefits of Perl. But please stop whining.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jjohn on 2001-10-31T19:44:13

But Mr. Jark, I like to whine!

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jhi on 2001-10-31T19:54:41

Then write an article about how to use XML-RPC in Perl to whine expertly and in great detail and length?

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jjohn on 2001-11-01T18:24:24

Jesus, Jarkko, haven't I done that enough? ;-)

Re:whine, whine, whine...

pudge on 2001-11-01T18:54:37

jjohn, your URL is broken.

jhi, please don't tell people to not "whine." Yes, encourage them to act, but don't ask them to not express their unhappiness at such an obviously unfortunate turn of events. Expressing displeasure is not de facto whining, and I see very little whining going on here.

There's no problem with people being unhappy, expressing it, AND doing something about it.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jjohn on 2001-11-01T20:43:50

You mean, people can't get to http://marian/writing? That's weird. They must not be on my LAN.

How about this?

I can't believe cut 'n' paste let me down...

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jhi on 2001-11-01T21:47:26

> There's no problem with people being unhappy, expressing it

Expressing your unhappiness helps no-one and no-thing, so why waste your energy on doing it goes beyond my understanding.

> doing something about it.

We'll see. Usually the doers/pure whiners ratio is close to zero.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

pudge on 2001-11-01T21:52:36

Expressing your unhappiness helps no-one and no-thing

I couldn't disagree more.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

jhi on 2001-11-01T22:22:40

I'm not here to satisfy your urge for arguing, sorry, nice try :-)

Re:whine, whine, whine...

pudge on 2001-11-01T22:29:15

Heh, if I wanted an argument, I would have said more than simply "I disagree." :-) I would have presented support for why I think expressing unhappiness about the matter is helpful and useful. However, I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed one way or another, and we all have more important things to do.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

ziggy on 2001-11-01T00:50:43

Well said.

TPJ was a nice moment in time that lasted many years. I'm convinced that the legacy that TPJ leaves behind is more than 20-odd quarterly issues, but also a small army of technical writers determined to spread the word of Perl beyond the converted.

Re:whine, whine, whine...

EvlG on 2001-11-02T21:14:12

Good point. Any idea how budding Perl enthusiasts could get into the process of writing articles for perl.com or TPJ or other suitable publications?

Perhaps this is a new form of activism the community should encourage. Perl 6 will need a lot of articles in the coming months, and consequently, a lot of people to write them :)

Any experienced authors have tips to get started?

Is that why I got a copy of SysAdmin?

catfish on 2001-11-01T12:49:48

...I'd never heard of it before. ...thought it was another of those free trade mags and pitched it. did I miss any decent Perl stuff?

Irony...

gaudior on 2001-11-01T22:49:57

This is the random quote which just appeared at the foot of this particular discussion:

You'll be relieved to know that I have no opinion on it. :-)
                        --Larry Wall

Well, I thought it was ironic. ;-/

Re:Irony...

pudge on 2001-11-02T03:18:02

This is the one I got:

There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
--Larry Wall in <1992Aug19.041614.6963@netlabs.com>

Back Issue Question

_bitwise on 2001-11-02T08:37:32

Will SysAdmin still print and ship back issues of TPJ?